OPTS GUY,
1. All I can say no one including in your company operates a business as an ONPO (obviously not for profit) company.
2. My experience is that Toyota in the forklift world and auto world is not known to be a low priced seller.

3. I'm certain they are a reputable company to deal with and their agreemetns meet all tests. But how things are structered in the contracts are what you need to fully understand with whoever you do business with. Remember all the Many Mae & Freddy Mac stuff we are dealling with? And all the laws getting passed that the elected officals representing the people don't fully read or read at all.

4. With that being stated, somewhere along the line profit will be realized. My suggestion to you is get the details of the lease contract and the maintenance agreement and a good magnifying glass (for the small print) review it carefully underline anything you have questions about or some vague language and get answers (in writing from whoever you are dealing with). Have a second person take at look at it - sometimes your wife is also a good person to review things (women are better at details than a lot of men)
For example, is there a clause in the maintenance portion that states that the dealer reserves the right to renegotiate the maintenance rate after 2 or 3 years in the contract? Is the lease a 3+2 lease meaing teh monthly payments look like a 60 month lease and you have the option to opt out after 3 years, but if you don't confirm your option to opt on or before a specific day you become locked in for 2 more years?

5. Generally, the leasing company &/or the dealer are responsible for the residual value. Your obligation is to make certain that the equipment is turned in with normal wear and tear, complete & all abuse items are fixed. Always at the end of any lease, have a condition report prepared at your site and signed by an authorized representative of your company and from the dealer before the unit is picked up. Keep a copy for your records.

6. Finally, I totally agree with Normandy's comments. I once had a fleet manager responsible for over 7000 pieces of rolling equipment (most were forklifts) and he stated that dealing with a supplier that he knew and trusted was worth anywhere from 15 to 20% more than the new "kid on the block " with a better $$ and it helped him budget operational expenses easier and more accurately- i.e. no surprises.

That's all I can say.

You seem to like your existing supplier and have a good relationship with them. It is difficult to put a monetary value on that , but is is considerable.

I had a similar experience with a German supplier a few years ago and the customer told me afterwords that he was very sorry to have changed to them, it cost them an extra 70,000 euros in questionable damage in just 18 months. He was very happy to return and I hope we will have them ever more.

My advice is if you are happy STAY WHERE YOU ARE, there is nothing for nothing even if you are Toyota. Even they have to pay wages , costs etc like everyone else and have to recoup things somehow. You will pay eventually , you have to.

JohnJ. My current supplier has told me that the numbers don't make sense and warns me that I may be trapped at the end of the lease with Toyota. He claims this is not uncommon. I understand the hours and abuse effecting the end of lease terms. However, my current vendor has warned me that they might have inflated residuals and my concern is if 3 seperate companies deems the residuals to be lower am I on the hook for the difference? As I mentioned I realize Toyota is a good company but if the sale prices are virtually the same why would the Toyota lease be so much lower than all other bids? I need to make a decision by mid July, so if anyone can answer this question I would appreciate it.

Good Morning OPTSGUY-
Dealerships determine the final pricing. TMHU manufactures the lift truck, which intern is sold to the dealership. We give the dealerships various pricing and promotional incentives throughout the year to offer to customers.

Financing or leasing questions can be directed to the dealership or Toyota Financial Services. Your leasing would go through Toyota Financial Service.

OPTSGUY-

Not sure if you have looked at the TCM forklifts yet but I am confident that we could propose a solution that would be as cost competitive as Toyota and not have you locked into the customer damages charges at the end of the lease.

If you are interested in discussing a TCM solution you can contact me at 773-376-7900

Please ask for Weston Olczyk

OPTSGUY,

The FMV lease residual value is set at the start of the lease proposal based on lease term, anticipated usage (annual operating based on hourmeter reading), operating enviroment, equipment type & specifications.

If the hours are exceeded at the end of the lease term you are on the hook for any impact on the FMV. Generally, if the leasing company gets 100% of tehrsidual vlaue at lease expiration you should have no worries. The FMV at the end of the lease is generally determined by 3 indepentent offers from various dealers and you will also be given an opportunity to purchase teh unit - generally the offer will come thru the dealer you bought it from. If the accumulated hours on the machine are significantly lower than anticipated, you should be given the option to continue the lease for an additional time period - generally at a reduce rate. (depending on the cost of financing at that time). Most of these options you should be made aware of by your dealer at least 90 days before the lease expiration date - many will open discussions 6 months before expiration. The more time you have - the more intelligent decision you can make vs a time pressured situation.

I would also like to thank everyone for their input. I am hoping to find others opinions then just the sales people I am dealing with. I understand they are trying to do their job but I am doing my best to determine the facts -vs- the mud slinging.

Shawna, If I wasn't clear I already have quotes from Toyota. My major question is how can the Toyota lease package which includes full maintenance (based on 2,000 hours) be less than their competitors truck only price? My concern is "Fair Market Value" lease. Since it appears you work for Toyota Corp. can you tell me who determines the FMV at the end of the lease? More importantly short of my operators doing any type of serious abuse to the trucks, do I have any exposure at the end of the lease or does Toyota gurantee the value at the end of the lease? I have asked for a copy of the lease contract (even a blank one) from my salesperson before we make our decision, hope to see it soon.

Thanks, I bet you will get more calls with that number ;-)

Sorry about that. I apologize, that is my error. I have fast typing fingers today! We make sure we get it right here.

1-800-226-0009.

My personal line is 949-223-7769. You can feel free to speak to me.

Shawna Piposar
Toyota Material Handling, U.S.A., Inc.

hey,,, Shawna_p....
I hope you find the rest of your phone number before you have too many things printed...
if they can't get a simple thing like the phone number right,,,,
Good luck to you in finding a ringing phone in the USA with that number.

Hello OPTSGUY,

You should really consider looking into a Toyota Lift Truck. With current times, it's always great to receive multiple quotes.Toyota has some really great deals right now!



Toyota has huge customer service ranking and highest in quality and value for the 5th year in a row!

OPTSGUY, visit the toyotaforklift.com website or feel free to give me a call at 800-226-009.

My name is Shawna & I work in the Marketing department at Toyota Material Handling, U.S.A., Inc.

Good luck to you in finding a lift truck! We are here to help.

What hour meter are they using? If it is an electric you need to know, is it traction time? Seat time? or more likely Key time? If it is key time which is the case in a lot of leases look out for overtime. If your current provider uses traction and Toyota uses key time you will hit overtime on the lease and maintenance much quicker in the lease. That can be $3.00/hr or more additional on the truck.

Youngster,

1.) You are right one needs to read over the contract closely. Typically in a Fair Market Value Lease w/full maintenance. There are two contracts to be concerned about. One for teh equipment lease 9between the leasing company adn the lessor) and the maintenance portion is an agreement between the customer and teh dealer.
2.) Typically when a quotation is provided to a customer only the highlights of the lease agreement are stated - ike monthly paym,ent, type of lease and if a FMV annual operating ours the monthly rate is based on. With the maintenance portion only the monthly rate is shown and little details are provided.
3.) While Toyota is a global company the vast majority of authorized dealers are independent businsses.
4.) It seems the OPTSGUY asked what to look out for and he was provided information.
5.) Sales people no matter where they are from have at least a little bit of this tendecy in them - "lie at little, cheat a little but always be sincere about it"
6.) Or as the fleet manager for a very large plywood company told me once "If a sales person says it to him - he believes 0% of what was said and if he puts it in writing he would only believe 50% of it." His name was J.D. Mills.

Guy's over the pond!
Do you really think that a global company like Toyota would 'rip people off' (I doubt it very much) I thought that the US had the best sales guys in the world, surely they wouldn't lie to you either.
I suggest you read the contract carefully and only sign if you are comfortable with the content. If you need clarification on any point(s) get the sales guy to give you something in writting signed by a senior member of staff.

OPTSGUY,
Often the 200 hours annual in a quoted is what the residual valvue is based on in a Fair Market Value lease.

The maintenance portion can and commonly has a different a different annual hour usage that when it is exceed you pay overtime rates. Look clsoe at this and is the overtime base period every month , every quarter, semi annually, etc. Just some "belt & suspenders" check points.

The bill going away thing maybe a bit of the "shell game". Most companies are not in business to be an ONPO (Obviously Not for Profit Organization) - except the Fedral, State adn Local Governments - when they run out of $$ they just increase or invent new taxes.

I understand due to the economy companies are doing some very aggressive things. My current vendor warns me that I should be worried about the back end of my lease. He claims it is not uncommon for some dealers to have a large service/up to par quote at the end of the term. That of course if I buy/lease from them the bill will go away, Extorsion?
Again, I have had great service and trust my current vendor but If I don't look at everyone how do I know whether I have the best truck/service?

this might just be Toyota trying to get business. Be sure there are no hiden charges.It just might be that they can stand a loss hoping in five years you will stick with them and that whats important to them.Some times when dealers are tied to a manufacture they have to take a number of trucks to get their discount, so they might just be of loading some stock on to hire.This is not bad as you can save just be sure on chargables

I have received several quotes. Some are more some are less. All quotes state 2,000 hours annually. Toyota certainly has a good reputation for their L.P. Trucks and they are quick to tell you they are #1. I have also been around a while and I am sure some of this has been accomplished by some of their acquisitions.

I am planning to ask for a copy of their lease documents. My concern is what is their expectation of condition after the lease? Is there anything else I should be looking/asking for?

OPTSGUY

When a $ is "significantly lower" than others, especially in the maintenance portion, get the details of the agreement and look for:

1. Annual hours of usage (by hour meter). Often a rate is based on fewer hours than you will actually use these machines. Meaning you will pay dearly for over time use.
2. How long is the rate really good for - 1 -2 years - it is not uncommon that there maybe be a clause that at the end of a 1 or 2 years (or some time less than the equipment lease period) the dealer has the right to increase the maintanence portion.
3. Find out was is really covered and get a their definition of abuse - I had a customer get billed for a leaky power steering cylinder claiming it was abuse - by a competitive Toyota dealer.

This happens more than you think. I took an account away from Toyota for the above reasons. AS an example This customer, well known company, operated 7/24 365 and they allowed 1960 hours of annual usage - in actuality - the hours use were over 3000. This was a 5 years lease in a nasty environment. They (the customer) had to get out the big check book at the end of the lease. Remember the "Devil You Know Is Generally Better Than the Devil You Don't Know". Plus, getting a new supplier is like getting married - you never discover the real ISSUES until you start living together.

Remember Sales People only follow the direction of their management and policies of the owner. Secondly, things like maintenance rates are set not by sales people but by the Service Department, who has to live with any contract. If they don't follow directions and guidelines, like all of us they will be fired.