I don't see how adding a lower budget truck that may appeal to some operations would be a complete undoing of a conglomerate such as kion.

To me this is smart, now you have a line up to compete with everything. Is this not a good way to add more sales possibly to clientele you were overpriced for before?

I mean jeez man if the tc truck is a p.o.s. they can always say this is why we have this other more expensive truck we offered to you first.

Why do auto manufacturers build many different models instead of just one that is the "best" every user has a different agenda and budget. I need to get to my clients everyday but I dont use the most expensive most reliable most luxurious vehicle, I use what I can afford to even if it might not last as long or perform as well but it fits in my budget and gets the job done just as effectively.




Open your mind. Different strokes for different folks.

Exact, you're not "in" any markets..............

We are OK in the Markets we are in , but still Know one has said how they will sell the benefits of hydrostatic then have to sell the same customer a torque converter truck. Customers will say well if TC is good enough for big trucks then why not smaller trucks and Linde will lose sales. Linde only sell well in Europe this is mainly Germany and France. How can some one try to sell say a 5 ton truck at a much higher price than a competitors truck and then sell a larger truck with a TC Ultimately it will be the undoing of Linde

Just another point even in the markets we are in we will still match Linde in heavy trucks, Last year and This year Linde sales put together in heavy truck did not match half of say NACCO or Taylor

Exalt, ultimately people will but any truck before they buy yours simply because they can. Your "website" still says "coming in 2014". It will be long time before you're exporting trucks in any significant volume.

You can sell your truck as cheap as you like, but it will take you 10 years to build any kind of reputation. I'm glad you have wealthy backers, because they are going to have to dig deep.

As I said before, I wish you all the best

Well i have asked people who are on here knocking me to come up with how they believe the linde 1411 is a better truck and how can they sell this being a TC as against a Hydrostatic based on the smaller Linde range.


No body has taken this offer up yet and i don't believe they will ever do this. But Big Al Flt did mention that he believes our product might struggle when we look to expand out side the middle east region.So i have done a little research to see if we will. Now we do use the same MTU 4R1000 engine as linde will use and we also use world class hydraulics well proven. We also offer the opportunity for local service companies that might not be as large as some of the bigger companies to compete by offer service only. we also offer a back in service guarantee of under 8 hour or the customer gets the month rent free.


So a basic rental like what we offer no contract so they can send the truck back when they have finished works on these prices

7 ton 16,000 pounds us dollars competitor 3,000 exalt 1,755
10 ton 22,500 pounds us dollar competitor 4,500 exalt 3,500
16 ton 36,000 pounds us dollar competitor 6,000 exalt 4,000


Now what Exalt rental offer is a high quality truck at a very good price with what can be said is a good guarantee. And also offer local service companies to be able to compete at lower prices than some of the larger companies for services bringing benefits to the customer.



Now i know people will say its Ok to put this on here but can i rent one of the trucks in Dallas LA or any other US city well the answer will be yes


We are able to offer this buy dealing direct and allowing local service companies to concentrate on what they do best service
and buy also designing a product that meet the demands of the rental market

exhalt;
I think you set a record for the shortest response ever on FAC. Maybe the FAC folks down under can verify this speculation. LOL

emm yes

exhalt:

The best reply I can think of, comes from an English proverb dating back to 1605 is: "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride"
You can get the meaning of this via a google search.

Had a mentor & boss of mine the late J.R. "***" Barber in my Allis-Chalmers days '67 thru '81. We later hooked in our Mitsubishi days - actual MDI a distributor for Mitsubishi fork lift products in North America & Mexico. He used this proverb often & made me look up the meaning the old fashion way by going to the library during my lunch hour. Never forgot it. The only wireless method of communications back then was via sending smoke signals on calm wind days or on a sea going ships via flashing lights.

May be it is me thinking that with nearly 50 years of experience in big truck you would of expected something better than the competition from Linde.

What might be a idea would be to get some to test all trucks and give there opinion on them. Some one independent like one of the trade magazines or Evan forklift action

Hi Big Al Fit


Thanks and yes it was a hard task , i do see the data sheet as important because this is were the truck work to heavy and you lose efficiency to wide you lose manoeuvrability.

This truck is up against the Hyster, Taylor, Kalmar Hyundai, and Doosan so it needs to be better than these but unfortunately from the spec it dose not look that way. But time will tell on this.


For us we use the same MTU engine as Linde and we have promoted this engine for years before Linde looked at it, Also the hydrostatic we use is very well proven we are able to back our product with a garaurante of if the truck is down longer than eight hours they get the month rental free. You also pointed out that you have the might of KION behind linde but on KION own web site they say they have around one percent of the North Americain market and in the Middle east it is only a couple of percent.

I also might point out that the people we are working with coukd buy out KION many times over i mean more than ten times over if not more. when you talk about KION you say their are a 4 Billion company , Just one project in the Middle east was over 40 Billion so we are able to compete with any company Globally, but to start with we are just in the Middle East. Were KION don't really compete

linde would have been better Lowering the cost of the 1401 which is a better truck than the 1411 looking at the 1411 it will not cut it in this market.


To me linde going TC will ultimately damage Linde , You can see the linde Sales rep say to the customer the benefits of hydrostatic up to 8 ton then say why to buy a 12 ton TC truck and the customer thinking well if TC is Ok for Linde over 10 ton then why not under 10 ton. This truck will just go against linde in all ways.


Linde did years ago have a TC truck over ten ton with Lansing but decided to replace this with the 1401. now they have just stepped back in time


In fact the only reason Linde did this truck was north america and this will be the undoing of Linde.


But this is a great place to show were I'm wrong and how Linde would be better than the competition

Exalt, I think what you're doing is great. Designing and building a range of forklift trucks from the ground up is no small thing, and probably impossible to get right first time, so I wish you luck in all your endeavors.

However, playing Top Trumps with data sheets probably shows your inexperience. The data sheet is a small part of what matters. Linde heavy trucks have almost 50 years experience of designing and developing heavy trucks, and more importantly helping their customers. Buy a Linde heavy truck and you have the whole weight of Kion behind you. Global spare parts, service and sales, fleet management software, finance and one of the biggest short term rental fleets in the world. Buy an Exalt truck and what would you get? Probably an under-developed liability that spends more time breaking down than being productive.

The 1411 truck may seem middle of the road to you on a data sheet (though I don't think it does), but I can tell you, having spent time with one, that this is a new bench mark for heavy truck design. The cabin feels automotive in quality, the engine, transmission and hydraulics feel superb. You just know when you drive it that time, money and experience have been poured in to it. Couple this with the above and you have a world beater.

I have lots of customers with mixed fleets that wouldn't buy the 1401 because of the hydrostat and the price. These customers are falling all over themselves for the 1411.

You said this truck should be a Bioli not a Linde? You couldn't be more wrong, and again just showing your nievity. Just because you've opted for a hydrostat doesn't mean Linde are wrong to use a TC in their new truck. I'm sure you'll find in time that the benefits of a hydrostat can be far out weighed by the negatives in a lot of applications.

Hi John


You can email me at enquiries at exalt - mh dot com and I will send you the information

Thanks for the offer but I don't do all that social media stuff - like face book, etc. nor do I own a a phone that is smarter than me, just a flip phone - that fits nicely in my left front pocket- have always had a bad habit of hiding things on myself. Send send no more that two text messages per year - while a good speller never could type or proof read well & enjoy more personal & meaningful tete-a-tete communications vs one dimensional communications - much more personal IMHO. When I grew up the wireless communication was smoke signals & most effective on days with no wind. Am retired & my neck would hurt if I kept looking down towards my shoe shine or worse like walking into an immovable object like a telephone poll or a parking meter. Plus I have a prediction, based what & happened to the whales. What I read & learned in school (ions ago) that whales used to be land mammals until they discovered water & lost their legs. My theory says is in the future that the human race will no longer be able to look up and enjoy the stars or a blue moon because of smart phones, tablets and like devices.
Yeah, know about the dinosaurs but I'm not looking for a good grade on my performance review- my kids say I'm old fashion - I say you are "spot on" right but I'm enjoying retirement.
Enough of that carp, back on topic, I would bet if you posted your e-mail address in your profile others still active in the lift truck game would be interested in receiving the spec sheet. Bet some of these folks on FAC don't use Linkin (sic I'm sure) but do e-mail.

KION would have been better branding the 1411 a Baoli truck rather than a Linde at there big announcement last week.


Linde like to promote their trucks as a premium Brand well the 1411 is no ware near premium and all in all is bellow average

Hi john


The spec sheets are available they are all done from 4 ton - 16 ton. If you email me I will send them to you or if you are on LinkedIn just message me if you look at exalt dot rentals there is a form on there to contact us just request the info on there and it will be emailed back to you


On Sir Neville I did meet him in the early 2000 yes he was a character when I met him he was a bit def but he was person you understood or you didn't, sadly most didn't but a character all the same shame about BOSS because it did seem to have quite a good name in big trucks

exalt:

1. Your super secret truck launch is supposed to be in Dec. 2015, if I recall correctly from one of your previous posting. So a spec sheet should be coming forth so you can share this new "silver" bullet with the world on FAC.

2. I understand the changes of Lance-Boss since I had my last dealings with Neville the Devil in 1981 or 80. His company eventually died the death of a ragged doll. Of course, he never claimed any thing about fuel economy as he didn't know what transmission he was going to put in a unit next week. We had a very good customer that bought 3 of the same model side loaders , within 1 year. We (Allis-Chalmers) badged them a S 270 (27K lb lift capacity) All 3 per delivered with different trannys - 2 were the same make but different models & the other was a different make - the names British Twin Disc & Brockhouse is ringing my bell. Oh, we had no prior announcement of these changes plus that equaled no service parts on this side of the pond. As Gomer Pyle used to say "Surprise, Surprise". Maybe he was still mad about loosing the war fought over here.

now hireandhire if you have the spec sheet you will know that what i have said is right.

Now for the truck that doesn't exist our truck in the same weight 10,000kg this truck passes the DIN BITA FEM ISO standards. service weigh 13360 kg width 2540mm length to face of forks 4200mm turn radius 3783mm lift speed 0.52 M/S

When you add this to the fact that this truck has been proven to be able to be back in service in under 8 hours from the service department receiving the break down call and replacement is also much lower. We just hire our own trucks but if we were to look at a selling price for this truck it would be under 145,000 US dollars for the USA market with the same MTU 4R1000 engine as the Linde. Now if the Linde truck is under 140,000 us dollars then it might be worth a look at

Now you can say that the Linde sets the new standards in this range. But the facts show that the new 1411 is below average unless you would like to point out that im wrong and back this up with a different info

You have said my facts are not true so if this correct please state in what way they are not true and place the alternative to my point. You also make out I'm trying to undermine KION in what way am I trying to do this the points I have said are all of the Linde spec sheet and you are free to offer your opinion in fact please do I would be interested in how you think we are wrong

Ok Hire and Hire you must work for KION right i have also the spec and the specs for other trucks i said the weight is just over 16 ton the service weight of the 1411 is 16298 kg as against say a CAT 10,000kg what is 14,800KG i said the width is 2.5 the width in the spec sheet is 2530mm and is average Hyster width is 2446 mm i said lenth to face of forks again average is 4584mm Doosan is 4340mm again the Linde is average lift speed is 0.42 M/S Kone is 0.5 linde is at the low end of this. Turn radius is 4102 and Hyundai is 4080 so again the Linde is Average
Linde dose have a forward tilting cab that does not look like it gives as good as access to side or rear tilting

How do you know are product doesnot exist and is totally unproven. The MTU engine we use is well proven the Rexroth transmission is well proven all the components are well proven so lets look at this way Linde have produced a below average truck that matched to facts on spec sheets is proven.

As for our truck like i have to others we are still way a head of you as you have never tried to build and finance a truck manufacture

I was at the launch of this truck last week and have the specs in front of me.

Almost everything you have said 'exalt' is incorrect or selectively reworded.

Your product doesn't exist, is years behind release and totally unproven. Please keep your facts relevant, true and don't undermine the capability of the world's second largest material handling company.

Hi john

yes basically this is true all trucks do seem to be very close on the paramitors of size. On fuel consumption Linde have claimed to have done a test at 16 ton that shows the 1401 hydrostatic truck use 25 percent lower fuel than competitors due to the hydroststic be interesting if they done the same with this truck. i would gauss it would come mid to the bottom of the table with the weight.

So again it will all come down to price and customer preference. at the moment there is no trucks on the market that have the Sir Nellive foot print and low fuel economy to match.


We have done a lot of research in this field from 6 ton up wards and have found that basically all trucks are the same within a small margin. and know truck has yet come out that can say they are the clear bench mark in any of this range