To set the record straight- essentially JBYRD is correct, in that Toyota owns Raymond but the events that occurred were that BT Industries purchased Raymond (around 2000) and Toyota purchased BT Industries and got Raymond in the bargain. Toyota wanted a clearer shot at the European Market that BT offerred them at the time which is a much bigger Market than the Class II and partial Class I & III Raymond controlled in the US.

I agree with that Dave. A slow decline is what Clark is facing and Young An provided a bandade to a heavily bleeding wound.

At the time of the purchase I worked with Clark and the owner of Young An owns majorities in many other companies including Doosan Bus. 90% may be a stretch but at that time he was the wealthiest person in Korea, north or south. Regardless of the ownership the time of bankruptcy is what I feel took Clark from the #1 spot and allowed Toyota to capture the market share.

Clark are owned by Young An hat co and also own Omega in big trucks , but in the new market of Super companies that will emerge over the next three or four years they will loose market share again. They won't be able to compete with the new companies and there dealer networks. The only way Clark will survive will be a tie up with Doosan, Hyundai, and Crown if Clark don't do this they won't be around in six to ten years time. Clark products aren't that good and there holding company might have money now but how long will they want to pump money into a company that is loosing money and market share. They might as well concentrate on the profitable side of there Business Doosan bus company and have a small local production for there forklift for the local market

JBYRD,
It is a bit of a stretch to state Young An Hat owns 90% of Korea. From info I could find that they posted a sales revenue of about $210 million in 2007 on their hat operations and aren't listed in the top South Korea companies like Samsung #1 at $165 Billion & SKHynix at #10 of $16.4 billion and other companies like Hyundai Motors, Hyundai Mobis Kia, LG Chemical sandwiched in between. Certainly, there venture into the lift truck business & bus will make their today revenue increase but not enough to come close to the top 10.

Yep Yong An also own doosan bus company and nearly 90 percent of Korea. Was the only way Clark could stay open but the damage done during the years of no aprts, no production and bankrupt dealers did enough damage to bring them off the top of the market share in the US and will likely hinder them for many years to come.

Clark is currently owned by Young An, a Korean hat maker and I believe they also bought Samsung, that made certain Clark forklifts (primarily ICE products)for a period of time.

Caterpillar had a lift truck relationship with Doosan formerly called Daewoo and that ended when Cat & Mitsubishi joined forces as MCFA, MCFE, MCFS.

Clark went bankrupt and were bought by the owner of Doosan Bus in Korea. Toyota didn't and bought raymond. Simple as that really.

I was fortunate to have worked in the industry in the "good old days" 1957 to 97- making me too old to switch horses in my later years!

I Have worked in five US big markets within the lift truck industry, when out in the trade speaking with customers who have or had Linde, they all say the same thing, Poor Service, Poors parts, no dealership or aftermarket help.

As for Clark, when I first started in this business, and Toyota starting to gain market share, I remember all of the Clark salesman leaving the local Clark dealership to work for the local Toyota dealership, to this day they are still there today waiting to retire.

In reply to bbforks regarding Clarks demise- it was not a fast fall off a slippery slope- it was a culmination of many years of miscues. I first want to say that I owe Clark a much better than average living over my 34 years representing their product and they are a Co. of the highest integrity. They got a real bump start with sales after wwll with their reputation of building almost indestructable lifts that carried over into industry and were bought by the returning vets now working in these industries. They then hit another home run with the Clarklift C30 to 50 after gettting the "A" model concerns repaired. I saw them as being too slow in re-engineering their products to meet the up and coming competition.I feel that they ignored their Dealer Council as to what the market was asking for and the engineering dep't. was controlled too much by the legal dep't. to keep up with the current specs of their competitors.

Short Term Rentals some will define as less than one year, rental period & Long Term Rentals greater than one year. Most of these are financed but the assets belong to the dealer & their balance sheets but offer the dealer flexibility to exchange equipment during agreement term. If equipment is leased, the asset belongs to the finance company and all the terms, conditions are tied to a specific s/n number unit(s) for the duration of the agreed upon finance period. Just like financing a car to own or lease.

STR = short term rental
LTR = long term rental

I appreciate all the feed back. It seems that marketing & price seem to be the key for both brands. I haven't heard any input on how 1 truck was really better in some way than the other.

I do have a question for johnr j- could you elaborate on what "STR & LTR" are. I'm not familiar with these terms.

I also would agree that the Toyota brand has strength, but Nissan also has strength for it's brand through it's automotive market. Are Toyota's & Nissan's competitively priced between the two, or are Toyota's less expensive?

I don't think the strength of the Toyota brand, built primarily in the automotive market, can be overstated. I also think they were ahead of the pack in terms of style and ergonomics for their price range.