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What dose the future hold for the forklift industry
  • DAVE160
  • yorkshire, United Kingdom
In 2009 the global forklift industry dropped by about 40% in 2010 it might have a 9% growth. With the global over production of about 31% what dose the future hold. In China many local companies will control the market ,in Europe Linde and Junghienrich will do well, In the US Crown and hyster will hold there own so where will Toyota be in three years after there brand has been damaged. Many companies in Europe deal direct with customers but in US deal through dealers if they deal direct they could add a couple of thousand dollars per truck to there bottom line. But can they deliver the customer service needed. This leaves a valuable point what will be more important price or customer service, will manufactures want to rent direct to customers to gain market share or will they be happy to sell to dealers who might not have the customer service. Will Chinese companies who use the same old TCM design make a more global marketing effort or will they try to control there own market producing tens of thousands of units per year. So will there be many home grown companies looking after there local markets or will there be five or six global manufactures ,with another four or five companies who will look after special markets like heavy and container handling
  • Posted 1 Apr 2010 07:48 AM
Total replies: 33. Showing items 1 - 20 of 33 results.
  • chublil
  • California, United States
With TMHU and Raymonds restructuring, I believe Toyota will be in decent shape given the fact they will "share" the class 1 thru class 3 market as one entity through national dealerships. This actually helps my company, as Raymond makes a much more desirable Class 2 product compared to Toyota. This also puts TMHU in a better position to chew away at Crowns market share at least in North America. I believe you are right in the dealing direct thing, and the after effect will be less and less independants and more national dealerships combining to strengthen their territories.

Fix it right!!!
  • Posted 1 Apr 2010 10:51 PM
  • DAVE160
  • yorkshire, United Kingdom
Hi Chublil this will be the point how will the smaller interdependent company get on if the main manufactures go down this line. Toyota in Europe were not very good in warehouse equipment thats why they bought BT roller truck now all badged Toyota. this will happen in US with all Raymond equipment being badged Toyota within two years the Raymond name will not be around. The problem that Toyota will have is how customers will react to the Brand and the damage the car situation has caused. Toyota has always traded on quality but this has now been damaged by what people have seen in there cars.
  • Posted 2 Apr 2010 12:29 AM
  • chublil
  • California, United States
I think if Toyota goes with the Raymond technology just as they did on the class 3 stuff, it wont be a problem. The jacks are identical, just different colors. If Toyota sticks to the Raymond stuff under the covers on the class 2 stuff they should be able to sell and stay ahead of the Crown dealerships in North America. Whether they choose to do that or not remains to be seen.

Fix it right!!!
  • Posted 2 Apr 2010 01:07 AM
  • DAVE160
  • yorkshire, United Kingdom
I think you are right Toyota have shown with BT that they will use the Raymond product in areas where it is best,but what will happen is Toyota will drop the Raymond name and sell everything under the Toyota brand
  • Posted 2 Apr 2010 03:31 AM
  • chublil
  • California, United States
You may be right, but I dont think they will go that route. I think it would be in both companies best intrest to keep them seperate from a liability and tax standpoint.

Fix it right!!!
  • Posted 2 Apr 2010 03:33 AM
The idea of one brand "swallowing" another is a tactic that has been tried over the years and has NEVER worked. Clark with Ross, Hyster with Lewis Shepard, Yale with Automatic and so on. Toyota undersatnds this as well as sees the value of the Toyota , Raymond and BT brands in their respective markets. The long range plan is to continue with both the Toyoyta and Raymond brands being sold by two seprate dealer newtorks to assure continued market share growth and profitability.
There are competitors that have suffered market share and profit loss because of the strength of the Toyota and Raymond brand and for that reason are hoping that one brand will disappear. The combined Toyota and Raymond market share along with BT represents the highest global market share in the industry. Based on that and the fact that TMHG is profitable it does not make sense to combine the brands.
For those of you hoping that this will happen my condolences!
  • Posted 2 Apr 2010 04:35 AM
  • DAVE160
  • yorkshire, United Kingdom
In the Uk this has already happened BT has disappeared and all BT
equipment are sold under the Toyota Brand. There is no real value in having two brands selling the same product under different names this is why Toyota sells products under one Brand.
  • Posted 2 Apr 2010 05:44 AM
  • danny_k
  • Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom
Just seen an advert today of Cesabs new IC counterbalance trucks which look very much like a green Toyota 8 series with a different counterweight!!!
  • Posted 2 Apr 2010 08:23 AM
  • DAVE160
  • yorkshire, United Kingdom
This won't be a surprise as Toyota own Cesabs which they got when they bought BT. It makes scene to try
to use as much as you can but I'm a bit surprised Toyota would let Cesabs do that. Maybe Toyota are now looking to change there plan Like Kion Group Have Toyota as the premium product and Cesabs as a economy product, use the same chassis with different ballast and possibly engine
  • Posted 2 Apr 2010 07:49 PM

The future holds the same as it did for the car industry, where substantial, global overcapacity led to convulsions at the first sign of a credit crunch. As with cars, where niche markets and style trailblazers evinced by brands like Aston Martin, Morgan and Bentley, give them USPs to pull them through, and will see them thrive, all other things being equal, so, too, forklift niche markets like articulated trucks, which show clear, substantial cost benefits over other truck types, will grow over the full business cycle. Other players who pay close attention to proving how they can cut operating costs over, say, a five-year cyle, will also thrive.

For the bread and butter market, however, like diesel counterbalanced trucks, inevitably there will be more consolidation and collapses. Meanwhile, many independent dealers will go down like nine pins
  • Posted 8 Apr 2010 09:06 PM
There is no real long term value in having two brands if there is no real and significant difference between the products offered. If you have two brands that are different in design and performance there is a great value as you can position specific brands and their models against specific competitors and still retain margin. The Raymond and Toyota Class I and Class II trucks are different in this perspective today. Toyota cannot go as high as Raymond and the Raymond trucks have higher performance characteristics as well as a higher level of technology. This is done to position the Raymond trucks in the high lift high cycle applications against Crown and Toyota aginst the rest of the pack. It works from a pricing standpoint as well as a competitive comparison perspective.
The Hyster and Yale model where there are two brands that are identical other than cosmetics leads to brand and margin cannabilization and the long term weakening of one brand over the other. That is one of the reasons why today Hyster's market share is lower than Yale's. Years ago the reverse was true.
  • Posted 9 Apr 2010 12:12 AM
  • chublil
  • California, United States
I agree completely sport5, I do believe Toyota has the best class 1 and IC unit, and Raymond has the best class 2 and class 3. This puts them in the best position to kill Crown in North America. Now whether or not they consolidte classes as to one system or not I could'nt say, but it would be in their best intrests to leave the guts of the units as is and offer both brands at both dealerships.

Fix it right!!!
  • Posted 9 Apr 2010 01:07 AM
I am shocked that someone thinks that Toyota has the best Class I truck. In my opinion, they rely on gimmicks and marketing.
When they came out with their flashy, 3" high LCD numbers on the display to show the operators that they were travelling at 3.1 mph. Wow, what a technological breakthrough. I will admit that it did excite the average forklift driver but that's not saying much.

  • Posted 9 Apr 2010 10:48 PM
  • chublil
  • California, United States
Okay duodeluxe, I'll bite. In your opinion, who do you think makes the best class 1. Their 3 wheel AC's are just as easy to work on as a pacer, and Ive seen many of these units go over 22,000 hours throughout SoCal. Their 4 wheel units are a little more involved, but they have proven to be a longlasting unit as well. I have seen Raymond- Crowns(SP'RC'and FC). There is a prime example right there. Crowns placement of a plastic hydraulic tank with numerous hose returns right under a leaking battery proved to be a big pain. Also seen Jungheinreichs and Komatsus-TCM's. Give me your favorite unit and lets discuss.

Fix it right!!!
  • Posted 10 Apr 2010 01:02 AM
  • DAVE160
  • yorkshire, United Kingdom
what we will see hapening is more companies forming alliances , Many companies produce a good truck in a sertern area ie Raymond warehouse Toyota IC, Jungheinrich warehouse Mistubishi IC Atlet warehouse Nissan IC. We will see more of this happening Crown have some type of agreement with Doosan in Australia.
One main point would be in the product development cost the development of a new product can come into millions one large Germany company has spent over 20 million on developing a empty container handling truck if they sell 100 units per year based on a 10 year life then thats 20,000 per unit.

Another point will be how these companies can develop share holder value they will look to do this through service offerings direct like contract rental this will be like in europe where many companies look to deal direct
  • Posted 10 Apr 2010 05:05 AM
  • • Modified 10 Apr 2010 08:52 PM by poster
  • h__j
  • Berks, United Kingdom
FYI Dave, TMH is still continuing to sell all its warehouse equipment branded BT. The CB Product is badged Toyota
  • Posted 29 Apr 2010 06:32 PM
  • DAVE160
  • yorkshire, United Kingdom
What you will see over time is that the BT name will go and Toyota name will take over, Companies can't afford
to have two products the same under different name , Linde did this with Lansing , Junghienrich did this with Boss.
Buy having two,three four or even five brands companies are not going to have the same brand awareness as one brand. This is a problem that Hyster and Yale are having and Mitsubishi and Cat. If you have two brands you will always have this problem. Customer wants a 6 ton truck Hyster rep goes in and says $10 the customer then calls Yale the Yale rep says $7 to get the sale on the same truck NACCO has just lost $3 on the sale
  • Posted 30 Apr 2010 12:55 AM
  • BobbyT
  • Wilts, United Kingdom
dave Cesab are gradually changing there electric and IC product to Toyota [url removed] SAS and the Toyota style of production TPS
  • Posted 19 May 2010 05:34 AM
  • DaveUK
  • BERKSHIRE, United Kingdom
The IC Cesab is a good fill in for Toyota as they don't build a hydrostatic transmission

Who bravely dares must sometimes risk a fall.
  • Posted 20 May 2010 07:00 PM
There is no doubt that the Toyota class 1 trucks are superior to everything else on the market. The new 8-Series trucks are the most advanced both in electronics and ergonomcs,not to mention safety.
  • Posted 20 May 2010 10:55 PM
Total replies: 33. Showing items 1 - 20 of 33 results.

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