Discussion:
How long will caterpillar stay in forklift market

As Caterpillar announce between 4,000 - 5,000 job loses , I wonder how long it will be before they will want cat dealers to put full attention to its core business of construction equipment and drop forklifts.
  • Posted 27 Sep 2015 06:50
  • Discussion started by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Showing items 1 - 15 of 23 results.
I worked for Finning the Cat dealer in the Uk from 1989 to 1997 at a branch that had both the forklift line and the earthmoving (as it was known back then), i initially worked in the fork truck shop before transferring to the earthmoving side.
Back then the Cat truck range was mainly dominated by the counter balance product the V range gas/diesel and F range of electric 3 wheelers, i even had the pleasure of working on the pretty rare V550 container handler (only 99 built from what i recall and used a Cat 966 wheel loader engine and transmission)
Like beens said, Cat has a strong brand name in industrial equipment and it's good to see it still being used, even if it's heart is no longer a real Cat truck.
I remember when i worked for Finning, the only products we seemed to see in the depot were D6's, 950/966, 980 wheel loaders, and the glut of V range and F range lift trucks.
I remember the first Mitsi - Cat badged excavators (E120 anyone) and thought how very Japanese it was, and all metric fasteners, in a time not many of my co-workers me included had metric tool kits.
  • Posted 6 Nov 2015 08:07
  • Reply by BurtKwok
  • West Yorks, United Kingdom
johnr j, you are correct. NACCO gives the same pricing to both Hyster and Yale dealers, exactly the same, given both dealers qualify for the same tier pricing. i.e.: A dealer selling 1,000 units per year is on a different pricing level than a dealer selling 200 units per year.

As far as Cat going away, never going to happen. They are forcing their multi OEM dealers to make a decision. Take Equipment Depot, they have willingly dropped most of their lines to concentrate solely on CAT. Cat has been expanding their product offering (some not available to Mitsu dealers) and strengthening their dealer network, they will be around for some time.
  • Posted 19 Oct 2015 05:19
  • Reply by batman
  • Pennsylvania, United States
@exhalt
Your price difference comment lacks any specific information for anyone to comment on. But significant price differences in "street" pricing - as opposed to the price a dealer pays the manufacturer - can be due to many variables - even with products that are marketed under two brands w/ only paint & decal differences, as in NACCO & MCF. Such as transportation cost to the dealer & end user(price/cost based on a single unit shipped in a container or trailer or lorry vs multiple units on the same load, if optional features such as are attachments or batteries & charge are included are from different suppliers there can be a dealer cost difference; dealer profit margin - dealers have been known to get rid of slow moving product at cost from time to time, maybe significant difference in mast specs, as in 2 vs 3 stage mast, etc. etc., maybe one distributor qualified for extra discount for sales and order level achievement, maybe the end user qualified for a larger account discount for one brand but not the other etc. etc.

Can only speak for what "has" happened in the US based on time spent with MCFA & a very large NACCO distributor (dealer). The wholesale cost to each marketing channel were pretty much the same - there maybe be an added costs to one channel for "special" marketing programs not available to the other channel. The added cost is just a "smidgen" certainly not enough to justify a 10% difference. Plus, in N. America there has been a growing tendency to sell both brands under one dealer organization in both NACCO & MCFA.
  • Posted 17 Oct 2015 03:01
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States
People buy brands in most cases. Why does General Motors sell several different brands of cars when under the cosmetics, many of the different brand models use the same engines and components? People tend to buy the brand and in many cases stick with that brand for a long time.
Why do you think companies spend millions of dollars on ads and promotions to build their brands and the buying publics recognition of those brands and their desire to own it? The more desirable the buyers perception is of a brand the more he will pay for it in most cases.
There are still many lift truck purchasers out there that believe that Cat lift trucks are made by Caterpillar as you did Exalt. That is an example of the power of a brand.
  • Posted 15 Oct 2015 23:29
  • Modified 17 Oct 2015 07:59 by poster
  • Reply by sport05
  • United States
OK thanks. Can some say why Yellow paint is worth up to 10 percent more than green paint
  • Posted 15 Oct 2015 18:59
  • Modified 15 Oct 2015 19:00 by poster
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
exalt,
You ask why? The MCF joint venture started in 1992 over 23 years now. Obviously, they are making money as MCFA in the US has undergone several facility expansions during this period. So everybody Cat & MHI are both happy and Jungheinrich too.

How the buyout Nissan/TCM plays out is yet to be seen-but have confidence that MHI/Nichiyu do have a plan that will unfold over time. One of the chief guiding principles of Japanese companies is they operate under the principle of a continuing Plan-See-Do process.

So it would be best to just sit back and relax to see how the rest of the story unfolds vs playing an armchair quarterback - as in the American version of "football"

Another thing that one needs to understand Mitsubishi (MHI) & Caterpillar Inc. have had an even much longer relationship (starting in the late 1940's - I believe) in the construction equipment business side - MHI used to build excavators, small bulldozers & motor graders for Cat as well as selling small HP diesel engines to Cat under a private label agreement. In the mid/late 1980 MHI sold their excavator operation in Japan to Caterpillar Inc. Can't really comment on what the current relationship is between MHI & Cat but they have been " strange bed fellows" for a long time.
Here is an article from 2008 you might want to read http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/caterpillar-mitsubishi-heavy-industries-and-shin-caterpillar-mitsubishi-announce-definitive-agreement-for-japanese-joint-venture-57124787.htm
  • Posted 14 Oct 2015 20:50
  • Modified 14 Oct 2015 21:19 by poster
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States
Well that seems to answer that question,so how I understand this is Cat Let Mitsi use the CAT name for a fee Mitsi have there own dealers who sell Misti trucks painted Yellow for a hire price than a green Misti.


Then the other question is why
  • Posted 14 Oct 2015 18:57
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
I was at raymond training center for reach truck maint training and seeing the cat reps and cat branded units on the build line. The feed back I got was that raymond was REALLY glad to get the business.
  • Posted 13 Oct 2015 21:49
  • Reply by triumphrider
  • Texas, United States
Raymond/Cat thing was a private label agreement between Raymond & Cat as in CII). Cat wanted to get into the Class II/III market. In the narrow aisle product the Cat product used a different controller. The Cat badged trucks had their own first line support team based in Greene but in a separate facility & a set up as a different company (MHE as I recall). Service parts were packaged & shipped in CAT labled products. After the formation of MCFA in 1992, the Mitusbishi branding of the MHE products began in 1994?. The Mitsi products utilized GE controllers in Class II models to have some prodcut difference between Cat, Raymond & Mitsi. Personally, worked on the agreement along with our legal council & upper management while I was at MCFA.

Obviously, these agreements all died the death of a ragged doll when Toyota took over Raymond.
  • Posted 13 Oct 2015 04:36
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States
Partsguy5, both points are from someone who personally meets regularly with MCF board level employees both in Europe and Japan.
  • Posted 13 Oct 2015 03:03
  • Reply by deadpan
  • ...., Austria
Anybody remember the raymond built ,cat branded lift trucks from the mid 90s. Never could figure that one out.
  • Posted 13 Oct 2015 02:53
  • Reply by triumphrider
  • Texas, United States
For Caterpillar this money for nothing. Why would they want to stop that?
  • Posted 13 Oct 2015 02:07
  • Reply by heightlift
  • North, United Kingdom
I don't think you're getting it Exalt...

Caterpillar does not manufacture forklifts. They are only in it for the branding. They are getting a check for their name. They do not have dealers, MCFA has dealers. It has nothing to do with the thousands of jobs lost or the Cat mining or dirt segments.
  • Posted 12 Oct 2015 23:51
  • Modified 12 Oct 2015 23:51 by poster
  • Reply by BirdDog86
  • North Carolina, United States
Why won't Cat want it's dealers to concentrate on one core product range like construction or minning were Cat earn most money. Cat look like a company that needs change of direction to be able to concentrate on one or two core product range. Apple did this in the 90's and turned their business around. Cat need to do the Same when you are looking at laying off up to 10,000 people you need a drastic message
  • Posted 11 Oct 2015 01:21
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
In response to "Exalt"...

As the Geico commercial says so accurately, "That's not how this works... That's not how ANY of this works".
There would be NO gain in focus for a Cat dealer to drop the MCFA forklift line, only a loss of profit from that division.
It would not even be a point of consideration... not for a moment.
  • Posted 11 Oct 2015 00:43
  • Modified 11 Oct 2015 00:46 by poster
  • Reply by Tampa2
  • Florida, United States

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