The choice is yours to whether use the replacement wheel cyl's as is or to replace the rubber parts with a known good brand. I've just had bad experiences with cheap wheel cyl's as they are.

Are you taking about rebuilding the wheel cyl? I'm not sure what brand (I pick them up this afternoon) but I'm replacing the entire wheel cyl not rebuilding. The whole wheel cyl only cost $11.00 each.

Side question the grease seal where the bull gear comes through. on the hub. I was going to replace it but the parts guy at ED said he has not sold one in years and don't worry about it. Is that sound advice?

You've hit upon one of the cheapest brake systems of any of the lifts I work on.

One caveat- I never use the wheel cyl internals from TVH (which is probably the brand you purchased), I use a local Napa dealer for the internals- I've had to many warranty calls on the brakes failing after a brake job because of the wheel cyl cups failing.

Well I found the culprit (or at least one of them) in my hard pedal issue. 3 of the 4 pistons in the 2 wheel cylinders were seized. I mean hammer and screw driver to get out seized. I glad I decided to replace them.

Has anyone had to purchase parts for one of these? Even the parts guy at equipment deport can't believe how cheap they are. I bought 2 master cyl, 2 wheel cyl, 4 brake shoes, 2 sets bearing carrier seals, 2 bull gear seals for $140.00. The master cyls were $28.00 each, not that I'm complaining.

I was expecting parts for something this old to be pricey. Because they are so cheap I'm not messing with anything. if it looks questionable I'm just replacing it.

You are right those things are heavy. Not so much in this case because I disassembled them (removed hubs, bearings, spindle) before I pulled it out. Even with those removed it still was heavy, but light enough I could ease it down without a hernia.

I pulled them both before I read your message. I had one side completely disassembled so I went out and pushed just the bull gear on one side back in. It went in, but I have not removed the bearing support to replace those seals. That may be the reason.

To be safe I'm going to leave that bull gear in and rebuild one side reassemble it then rebuild the other.

I assume the brake shoes cannot be cleaned? The shoes look brand new (thickness) other that being coated in gunk.

Drums looked great again other than being coated in gunk. As Mr Fixit called it.

I assume the gunk is coming from the diff leaking into the brake housing through the bearing support seal? I plan on replacing them I just don't want to overlook something. I have not looked at the wheel cylinders. Everything is covered in gunk so its hard to tell what's going on till I clean it up.

Stopping by equipment depot this afternoon and picking up the seals and shoes. Plan is to reassemble Monday.

One thing I recommend is only pulling one axle end at a time...if you pull out both of the (left,right side at same time) then the center differential carrier will drop and you'll have a heck of a time getting the axle ends back in....

I never send someone to do this job, until they have done at least one with supervision, as when you do get the nuts and bolts off, and start pulling the unit away from the truck, when the studs loose, there is a very awkward moment just as the studs come out, when you will want to be using a wheeled jack to support more weight than can be held at that angle, and the weight will shift to one side. it is a good idea to have someone on the jack and someone pulling and stabilizing the brake assembly.
You may loose some important parts, internal to the gut [hernia possible], or in the extremities [fingers or toes] of the person trying to balance that much weight. be careful your family needs you more than you need to save a few dollars.

I'm working with the forum admin to be able to add pictures. Hopefully that will make things easier for those helping me if they can see what I'm talking about. They created a directory and added the initial pics I sent The link is above. I'm working with them now to be able to add more as I work through this. I hope to have pics of the brake shoes and drums. Thanks, you have been a tremendous help.

Got it. I had blocks under the upright just to get them out of the way. I'm going to move them back behind the wheel well on the frame. I got the 2 nuts off on the bottom, but I'm going to have to raise and tilt the upright to get to the ones on top.

There are 5 nuts on studs on the front and underside and 5 bolts in the wheel well area holding the axle end on.

dual posting,,, when the admin fixes his post like he can please delete this post,

check this out:
http://www.forkliftaction.com/upload/forum/dcraig.htm

check this page for photos:
http://www.forkliftaction.com/upload/forum/dcraig.htm

Problem getting the hubs off. Removes the 5 bolts in a half moon. When I look at the diagram it looks like a long bolt in the front. I look and appears to be 3 bolts. Loosen 2. I'm going to have to reposition the upright to get to the other. Am I on the right track? The puppy is still in their solid.
http://www.forkliftaction.com/upload/forum/dcraig.htm

Well I got the hubs off last night. Little tough. The diagrams I looked at shows the bearing caps held on with bolts, mine were pressed on. One refused to come off and I had to destroy it. Other than that all looked good. Bearings and races looked good. More grease than I expected, but I see where you would want a lot of grease on the bull gear.

Should I pull the bull gear out first then the rest of the assemble or leave it or does it matter?

Is that grease anything special or just plain axle grease?

Next step pull the rest of the hub assembly.

The whole assembly is not sealed to the differential/trans with a gasket, just a round seal is used with about a 1 1/2" id that the axle from the assembly goes through in to the diff/trans. You can take it apart as you questioned about if you want to check the bearings and bull gear, but the whole thing must come out to get to the brake drum.

I got the truck block up this weekend so I can work on it. Looking under it it looks just like you said mrfixit. Its leaking where the hub assemble mates up to the diff, I assume its leaking into the hub assy hence the brake issue. I'm guessing that its the those bearing support assy seals that are leaking?

I assume there is not a seal between the hub assemble and the diff because it should be dry in there. Is that a good assumption?

Another question I'm thinking about checking the wheel bearings and other seals so I'm looking to disassembling the whole thing instead of pulling out whole. Is there any problem doing it that way?

I don't have a good bench so it would be easier to remove piece by piece instead of removing whole then disassemble.

I took some pictures but I couldn't figure out how to display them. I don't know if the forum allows pictures.

Special tools aren't required- just more time than usual for a brake job (I quote this type of job at 8 hrs when doing it on the street by myself). The brake assy's are inside the hubs that support the drive wheels. There are a series of nuts on the front of the rear assy (behind the upright) that need to be removed as well as bolts inside the wheel well (3/4" head). Once these fasteners are removed the hub & wheel assy's slide out w/ the brake assy's attatched. There are covers on top of the hubs that give access to the brake line connections which need to be disconnected first before removing the hubs

Make sure the lift is supported properly before removing the wheels & be sure to replace the axle seal & O-ring in the differential support bearing assy. IMHO- getting the bearing support out of it's housing is the most frustrating part of the job- be ready to sacrifice a flat head screwdriver or 2- bending the tip at a right angle to get under the lip works.

Be prepared to loose a good bit of ATF when the hubs are pulled & even more when the bearing supports are removed. Fill w/ the latest Dextron when the job's complete & you should be in good shape.

I have a leak at the front of the truck I have eliminated the mast cyl and line. This weekend I cleaned the top of transmission and drive housing. There is nothing leaking on top. I say that to say is it possible I have a leak on that inner seal into the hub assemble affecting brakes as well as leaking on the ground.

Second question I,m an experienced mechanic with a good array of tools. I'm not an experienced lift mechanic. Is this something I could reasonable do? Do I need specialized tools?

Petal going down 1/3 and hard but not stopping unless you stand on it is a problem with friction of the brake shoes. They are probably oily. That's kind of a big job to get at brake shoes being that you have to remove the whole axle end assemblies. Fluid shooting up with the cap off the master cylinder is normal. Empty inching cylinder means that it leaks or the inch valve slave is leaking. Bubbles coming up after filling is just it's trying to bleed itself. I think you need to get at the brake shoes to solve the problem.