These days companies say premium manufactures because it makes them look better,but in reality they are just the same as other manufacturers. What they do is try to do the full range in stead of like CROWN just do one range the best way possible..


Apple before Steve Jobs took back control had many different products and were near bankruptcy then he concentrated on a couple of core products and made apple outstanding again

exalt - don't get confused or hung -up on terminology. Just be cause Crown doesn't use the term PREMIUM doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have products designed for light to medium duty operation, etc. A great example for you to study to see what I mean is their SP order picker line. You will note that they are designed differently and some have more optional features available than others - so the unit can be tailored to application needs. Crown has always been know for a quality product. I recall in the "good ole & fun days" of the lift truck industry i nteh 70-80's at the big material handling show held in Chciago's McCormick Place & Cobo Hall, Detroit the Crown boot stressed quality & had the best looking ladies that were dressed to the 9s to reinforce the FABs of their products. FAB - feature, advantage, benefit. At OKI a large Crown dealer in Ohio (Ky & Indiana) area - they used the terms feature, function & benefit - use to work with them closely when they represented Mitsubishi & Komatsu forklifts. And we shared a beer or two after our training programs - of course, we made them pay for the suds (LOL).

Would people agree that by solely concentrating on electric warehouse products that CROWN produce better products

Hyster for years always sold more 11' motors than 9" maybe because of application or just more confidence in the premium motor. It was bullet proof. Yale sold more 9"for price and to be different than Hyster. They would sell basic dash options. You had to be sure that Yale was not promoting the Premium but actually delivering the basic package.

A premium product is something you are willing to pay more for because it has something extra. It may simply last longer because it is made with better materials. Some components on a forklift are premium products for this very reason.

BTW has anyone in the UK noticed any big price increases out of TVH recently?

When it comes to crown electric units I have to say they are hard to beat when it comes down to the quality, durability and reliability. The C-5 has a way to go to get to the same level as the electric crowns. I have heard first hand about them from techs and operators. If crown spends the same effort as they did on the RR-5000 series trucks to get them right they will be a pretty good unit.

Hi John


Do you think this is because of CROWN dedication to electric trucks and they don't look at other areas they are not strong in that they can produce what you say and others say is a better product. The C5 LPG truck is their only entry in this market and this was maybe it help them get customers who wanted a IC truck as well as a electric truck.


You can put many comments about the industry but what you can't say is that CROWN are not the bench mark others should try to beat when looking at developing warehouse equipment.

When I have spoken to people about design and they mention CROWN they don't say premium they say quality

If you can't beet CROWN then don't develop the product

exhalt

Hyster/Yale have been doing the 9" drive motor & 11.5' drive motor for many years. Sales people have been known to sell the "cheap unit" or 9" drive motor into a HD/high cycle application 'cause the customer liked their price & the rep wanted the commission to pay his bills. Then the hoops came off the barrel when the customer started using the "economy" model.
When it comes to electric sit down rider forklifts in the US market, I think you will find that Crown is the "big dog". Crown like Raymond play predominately in the electric truck market, ITA classes I, II, III in the US. Crown entered the ICE market in a limited way. But they set the bench marks for others to follow on battery powered equipment. Toyota does a reasonable job in sit down electric market in the US as well.

You still get what you pay for.

i can see we have a very interesting and divers view of opinions , what i think will be interesting in the market will be how the big companies manage their different brands to the market.

When you look at what i would call the big four manufactures Toyota, KION, Hyster Yale and Uniarrier market their different brands they will always say one premium, one value and one economy. the fact that they all might use a number of the same parts might just go by the by but in the future it will be the customer who will decide what they want and what they are willing to pay for.

And maybe then manufactures will stop saying premium value and economy and just say a forklift that will move your product

You get what you pay for.

Maybe it just might be a choice of words preferences. In the 41 years spent in the lift truck industry and reading product brochures never once did I read that any lift truck make had components that were less than heavy duty or robust or high quality or designed for long service life or had steel that was 2 or 3 ranks above the competitors (Japanese like to use that term in product comparison - never understood what a rank was even after I asked a MHI engineer), etc.

Of course, in the US we don't really speak English- English - I call it Americanese. e.g. we call over the road trucks 18 wheelers in England they are called lorries.

But Life is Still Good or Pura Vida if you are in Costa Rica

I think a better word more suited to forklift trucks would be heavy duty. Premium products are generally bought for personal use.

exhalt,
When i worked for Mitusbishi and we were importing products from Japan to the US. I discovered that they actually had different engines in the lifts that were used in their domestic market (generally smaller w/less HP/torque). Price of fuel was a primary reason, the second reason was forklifts are used totally different in Japan than in the US due to their Just In Time manufacturing process. Very little in plant storage, some mobile racking system. Or to put it another way a storage rack sales person and a lawnmower sales person would go hungry in Japan. So I guess we were getting a premium unit that would hold up better.

Yale /Hyster in ther 4k-5K, electric counterbalance solid press on tire lift truck offered a drive motor that was 9" diameter & in their premium version it had a 11.5" dia. motor, higher performance levels (travel/lifting speeds, etc.) and other enhancements. These premium products were placed into high cycle/high usage applications. A 9" drive motor in those application didn't have enough power to pull a sick lady of the evening out of bed by comparison.

in my experience dealing with big name dealers
they generally have 2 lines of models they sell
standard line with just basic functions and systems
premium line with all the bells and whistles, attachments and optional equipment.

example:
electric lift that has basic dash display and electric controls, standard levers, no extra sensors on motors etc,
versus one that has premium dash display and full scr hydraulic controls, fingertip levers, all sensors on motors etc.

the optional equipment depends on the mfg and what they want as standard versus premium.

these days with sales trying to maximize their numbers they generally try and push a premium line product on you first, if you want less than that you pretty much have to ask for it.

I agree with BREWSKI that there is no "Premium" forklift comparable to Rolls Royce or similar. A forklift is a tool built for a purpose.

When a forklift manufacturer claims to have a Premium product it should of course include only top quality driveline, electric and hydraulic components, be developed and tested to a very high level. But further to this you need to have a global support network, custom options, service, spare parts. Logistics and warehousing software support and automation support, in-house financing and leasing, as well as short term rental support for customers to cover short busy periods like Christmas etc.

You can have the best truck in the world, but if you don't have the support network around it, then it becomes obsolete.

there are plenty of "decision makers" who accept the concept that "perception is reality", so what ever they want, is what is "premium".

to me BREWSKI i would agree with your point, but in the industry there are people who would call their product a premium product and would like to charge a higher price for this. If you were to look at say a 3 ton truck one manufacture who is higher priced might say the higher price is the premium for a premium truck. My question is what the basis for that claim as many truck use the same or similar components

There are no true premium classed material handling equipment, unlike the auto industry material handling equipment by it's nature is not a prestige piece. Who would notice a leather crafted dash on a lift truck running in a dark dirty warehouse? Premium usually indicates a upgraded drive line or monitoring system added to a basic unit.