the toyota dealer here does the same thing as you guys are discussing and shockingly toyota has ownership shares in the dealership!
as far as the emissions must have been a bright customer to buy the yale and find this issue 3 months later!
toyota sales tactic, ive seen them compare a brand new truck against a truck with 20,000 hrs and say see its very fuel efficient!
welcome to the toyota world

Not sure about Toyota National Accounts being #1 but Toyota dealers HATE Toyota National Accounts.

windstar,

You should be able to contact the dealer in Atlanta. Give them the model and s/n and the should be able to help. : (404) 373-1606

ToyotaMan do you have any software and service manuals for 7FBCU25/68489 that I can buy or borrow I got these toyota's from a plant that closed we have a small clothing plant trying to start up and I don't know anything about them.

Batman,

Toyota does have a very good national account program, however I think Crown may be better.

Again, in your scenario any dealer representing any manufacturer could have done the same thing.

First, Toyota is #1 because they are so aggressive on national accounts. Toyota owns national accounts and this continually keeps them on top, their market share without national accounts considered is not #1. However, that being said, they still make a good truck and they do a good job with the national accounts which strengthens their dealers. It is the individual dealers that are responsible for the backcharging, but it seems to run in the Toyota family. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that Toyota is so hard on their dealers and are always pushing them to sell more trucks. The dealers do what they have to so they meet quota.
As far as the 65k trucks, very large cushion tired trucks with 300+ inch quads, five way hosing and special attachments. I think another reason this customer got hosed so bad with backcharges is because the Toyota dealer had to hold a high residual to get the deal hoping for a possible continuation of the lease on a year by year basis. When the customer wanted to send the trucks back the dealer knew they had a pile of pink elephants to sell and had way too much money in the residual to sell them. The dealer didn't see a possibility for any new truck sales to the customer so just backcharged for anything they could find to buy down the residual and get out from under the trucks at a break even. Not an ethical way to do business. The other OEM's lost the sale because they held a realistic residual therefore had higher payments.

By the way BATMAN, what size Toyota costs $65k each?

Don't you know.... Toyota has been #1 since 2002 because they backcharge their customers for everything!!!!

And customers enjoy this and continue to purchase more equipment from Toyota!!!

I'm joking!!! This is on a dealer by dealer basis. Any dealer and con do this. Dealers that continue this practice will loose business over the long run.

Toyota seems to be a magnet for this attention since they have been #1 for so long and when you're on top everyone else tries to pull you down.

I was quoting real world experience. A company leased 7 Toyota's valued at approximately $65k each, about $455k worth of lift trucks. The lease was never picked apart under a microscope and when the end of lease came around the purchaser was at another company. The company returning the trucks was liable for paint, pedal pads, seats, oil leaks, brakes, etc. The trucks had to be in the condition that they were delivered. I suspect the purchaser had a great rapport with the truck sales person. The lease was probably looked at by in house legal staff but just for general legal terms, payment terms, etc. not picked apart under a microscope to make sure that you weren't going to be cheated and ripped off. It is unfortunate but today's business ethics make it mandatory to check over everything with a fine tooth comb.

RESPONSE TO: batman...., Most large companies have an attorney at hand or some have legal departments that handle other issues. I know some people who wished they had some type of legal advice before leasing a car, no malice towards you intended but 20 forklifts is a big "chunk" of money, I would venture to say that the cost of an attorney "Having-a-look-see" at the lease would be lot less than several thousands of $$$ at end of lease that all could have been avoided. just a humble opinion---might be worth what I charge for it. I totally agree with you concerning the abuse of the trust because of $$, it is sad that it happens but we live in a new world now, the old "HANDSHAKE" days of doing business and a mans "WORD"was his bond have long since gone, you have to cover your "hindend" with any deal anymore because of the $$ factor. I do appreciate your candor, this seems to be hot topic.

Drlifttruck: In the REAL world there is a customer/client relationship built between two business people that is built on trust and understanding. It's unfortunate that sometimes this trust is taken advantage of due to profit or the sake of making a sale. And yes, even "college" educated people make this same mistake.
Here is one scenerio that I actually witnessed more than once: A corporate purchasing agent (he/she is college educated) needs to purchase/lease 20 new forklifts to replace the aging costly fleet. He wants to look good to upper management so he goes for the most cost effective alternative. (the cheapest monthly payment) There are six lift truck companies bidding on the contract. The purchaser picks the cheapest contract and at the end of the five or six year lease the company owes boat loads of money on the trucks. The original purchaser doesn't care because he has already moved on and is working for another company. Now the dealer pushes the new purchaser into another contract to cover the end of lease costs of the previous contract.
How many of you have leased a car and taken the lease contract to your attorney before signing?

response to Drlifttruck: BINGO!---been a-waitin' for this one: I think every outfit has "FINE PRINT" that most people do not read. Customers need to have any lease document examined by a lawyer if they have to, some folks will not tell you if you do not ask, The "end "of a lease is a bad time to find out what you agreed to by the stroke of a pen.....Leases come in different sizes and colors, It is the customers responsibility to check everything out so they know what they are getting into before they sign---"can't blame the leassor for what you signed for" ---Don't be pressured by the people who are trying to get you signed up and accept NOTHING "VERBAL" , get it in writing. The Payment amount depends on the "end of lease term" expectations--maintenace and repair issues and so on---these issues affect payment amounts, the "bargain basement" payments will bite you at the end of term if you don,t read the fine print.

Does anybody realy care!

Lease is a loose term.

Read the contract before you sign.

Mostly (LEASE) is dictated by the dealer( FINANCE COMPANY ETC!), not the OEM!

Good God Miss Molly!

Grow up get a business education will ya!

It will usually depend on the leasing company. I've found some such as citicorp can be very picky on items while others are more easy going. It is usually covered in the long and wordy contract. If you are using manufacturer leasing you may be more tied up...just always be sure your contract matches the leasing company or you will be left holding the bag for return charges.

Respose to duodeluxe: Kind of like the new add by the railroad folks hauling several tons of freight several hundred miles on one gallon of diesel.

Batman,

I understand what your saying but I saw all the numbers I stated with m own eyes. This wasn't a studay or a third hand report. This was a simple test done by the customer in my presence.

Actually true emission tests are measured by g/kW-hr of HC+NOx and the same for CO pollutants. (g/kW-hr stands for grams per kilowatt-hour. HC = hydrocarbons, NOx = nitrogen oxides and CO = carbon monoxide) To say the Yale was 130 PPM and the Toyota was 8PPM is more than likely a mistake since the GM engine used in the Yale exceeds EPA/CARB emission standards into 2010. Since the fuel delivery system of the forklift determines the emission output I would say there was either a problem with the fuel system of the Yale or somebody was reading the monitor wrong. Any Tier 3 fuel system is sealed and cannot be tampered with so the problem is more than likely with the CO monitor or the people using it. However, Kudos to you for selling five new trucks on nothing more than a mistaken reading of a CO monitor. Take those "gimme" sales every chance you get because eventually you'll have to sell on merit, that's when it's tough.

As long as the green aspect was mentioned I thought I would share some info.

I delivered a new 8-series to a customer the other day. The customer has a fleet of mostly Toyota 5,000 lb. pneumatics. They also have a 3 month old ale with the GM engine.

They were very concerned with emission since this is a primarily indoor application. They called me over to show me something. They had their CO (Carbon Monoxide) monitor in hand and the Yale and new Toyota were side by side. Both had been used for a few hours and the operators were on break.

They proceeded to show me the CO levels at idle. Both trucks were 4-5 PPM at the tailpipe.

At full RPM the Yale was 130+ PPM and the Toyota was 8 PPM. They gave me an order for 5 more trucks the next day.

I never have worked for Toyota, but it is not conceivable that a company that has grown to the number one lift truck company in the world by instituding "unethical" practices with thier customers or condoning the same with their dealer organization.

It seems to be that people confuse the people who do the best marketing with people who makes the best forklift truck. Their new "Green" ads are quite appropos.

I would expect their next gimmick will be "Buy Here", "Pay Here".