BB- The middle to me would be inserting the words "Not all" in front of each sentence.

duo- what's your take on this? If the truth is somewhere in the middle- where's the middle for you?

duodeluxe

If we were on Facebook, I would clik "like" under your post.

I have been reading most of these threads for some time now.
There are two common themes that keep repeating:
1. All technicians are perfect, all managers are buffoons.
2. All dealers and manufacturers are money grabbers, all technicians only care about the customer and never have a thought about making money.
As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

You are so right forkingabout, you must have worked for BTR in the good days

Iceman- call me Darth- I'm from the dark side! The bells & whistles I speak of are the "arm rest hydraulic controls, transmissions that are in both forward & reverse at the same time so that it mimics plugging of an electric lift, gas pedals having their own "brain" because both forward & reverse can be operated at the same time"-etc.

These are just a few of the bells & whistles that newer Hysters & Yales have. I think they're fine in theory, but on a gas powered lift I think it's a little bit much. Adds nothing but complexity & cost to the unit- along with A LOT more downtime & repair costs.

As an independent I don't have access to the laptops & programs needed to service some of these issues- frustrating not only for me but also the customer- nothing like paying dealer rate for a tech to chase a Canbus problem all day & not being able to find the culprit. Not all dealer techs are as well versed in these systems as the guys on this site.

Customer service means (to me) that when a dealer is called for service, a local repair tech is sent that has detailed knowledge of the machine (as long it's their brand), has the proper tools to diagnose & has timely access to parts (again- if it's their brand machine & it's not an antique), is friendly (I'm paying the bill), can explain in plain english to me what the problem was & when finished that unit is back up & running as it was intended with no on going issues. This is how I run my business. Too bad that the dealers in my area don't follow this mantra.

The tech's I've had the pleasure of working with from dealers try to bullsh*t me on what the problem is, usually have to come back with the"proper diagnostic equipment" because they didn't bring the correct laptop or program for this exact model etc. This may be of the tech's doing, or may be from the home office- I- as a paying customer don't really care which it is, all's I know is that the cost of the repair goes thru the roof & downtime is extremely increased.

So- when I talk of bells & whistles- this is the soapbox I speak of. Nothing wrong with being green- saving the planet, etc etc, but when repairing new equipment is more expensive than repairing old equipment- somethings gotta give. All's dealers seem to care about is making money- today- and lots of it. Doesn't seem to be a thought about keeping a customer for tomorrow- that's too far in the distance.

bbforks- I understand what you are saying about the days of old! Certain parts of that old world support should never go away. As far as bells and whistles go? do you mean the emissions bells and whistles or just he ones that require a laptop to fix? modern tech is not bad! it is just hard for some to grasp. Go into the light! feel the force Luke! its ok don't be afraid. Modern tech does not come with a rule of giving up good customer service. People adopt that rule.

Raymond- I believe these old stodgy brands have run their course. Over priced, over complicated- the current economic environment will thin the herd.

It'll be sad to see the mainstays take a hit- but they better get lean & mean if they want to compete. If a company comes in with a lower priced unit (a quality unit ) without all the bells & whistles & sets up a dealer network that concentrates on the basics (customer service, parts availability) then the current crop of lifts will be in BIG trouble. Of course- this is MHO- and I'm sticking to it!

bbforks, you hit the nail dead nuts on the head!! Our company use to buy used fork lifts from Great Lakes Hyster....................edited by Admin....... I like the NACCO product but I fear they won't be around much longer.

Seems like no one even thinks of tomorrow- just make as much as you can NOW! Customers are left to scramble to find a vendor with just a hint of customer service- if they can find one at all.

As I've stated in other posts on this site- these multi-brand dealerships do not live up to their expectations. When a dealer was responsible for 1 brand- you could count on at least 1 person knowing something about their product- now it seems it's very easy for them to "pass the buck"- very sad for our industry I believe.

i think if you look closely across the board you will see this everywhere. It seems to be a disease that has overtaken many people worldwide. What do you think is fueling this inflation and erratic economical situation these days. All it takes is ONE to start it and it then snowballs from there.

Just curious on why you would say that. Are you referring to past or current dealer?

Hyster/Yale needs to be bought out.........Or make factory stores out of them...........edited by Admin

There has been a shortage of loctite & torque wrenches at the BT factory for several years.

We always go over any newly delivered truck & spanner it up as we do.are own pdi.

Any new Raymond designs on the horizon? Wonder if they will follow on from Toyota's cracking influence on BT? Safety campaigntastic.

ICEMAN, how did ya write that funky Chinese lettering?
well by golly, cant say anything bad about cascade.....all my trucks have em, over 26,000 hrs on 45 of them and nothing to service! what more can you ask for? Did put a complete side shift on a Caterpiller after it kissed a main warehouse beam. Our cost was $525 for the whole side shift carriage! More than reasonable.....Can Balzoni beat that?......****, at 26,000 hrs, the truck Kaput!
I think Toyota is getting too big for it's britches. Raymond quality is going downhill. I think there is a mass shortage of loctite at the factory since parts fall off soon after the PDI.
And I'm pretty sure ICEMAN would agree that "Kaizan" loosely translates into "Multiple minds bored at the same time"

這是一個博客網站。還不是賣裝備的地方。

This is a blog site. Not a place to sell equipment.

Cascade has always enjoyed a spectacular reputation in the US. Probably more so with end users than with dealers. A lot of end users that look to purchase a new truck with an attachment such as a clamp or single double may end up buying a truck brand they weren't at all familiar with but it absolutely had to be equipped with a Cascade clamp.
Another major factor in Cascade's success is their competition has always been much smaller and much weaker.
I am in hopes that one of their competitors is keen enough to realize that most, if not all, non Toyota dealers do not want to support their competition and take hold of this opportunity.
One attachment that we buy more than others are side shifting fork positioners. I will say that Rightline makes a superior unit at a much more attractive price.

if Toyota implements their Kaizen culture, it may influence on Cascade quality.

Having seen Toyota's Kaizen culture quality influence on BT products all I can say is get ready for Cascade quality to go downhill.

Price, warranty & parts- when it comes to attatchments- these are what talk to buyers.

Toyota used to be able to sell at a premium because of their reputation of quality- now it's not the case.

I'd say that of all the attatchments I've seen/serviced- 99% were Cascade. If another supplier comes in & equals their warranty & parts supply & undercuts the price- they'll be done ( In America anyway).

So, if Toyota implements their Kaizen culture, it may influence on Cascade quality.

Anyway, I agree that the quality is very important issue. We here (and me personally) treat quality (in a common sense meaning) as one of the main decision factors.
And believe me, polish economy nowadays is one of the most stabile economies in Europe. And German industrial products are treated here as top shelf. Merecedes or BMW still have very good sales here, although generally auto industry has very hard times now.
The issue is that quality is not treated as a strategic advantage, because it's not calculable. The price is. You cannot tell how many percent Kaup is better than Meyer (or opposite). It means that if an attachment/truck/product is 20-30% more expensive than the competition, you cannot prove, that it is 20-30% better. And it's not a matter of "brand value". I think, that Cascade brand is worth more than Kaup brand, mainly because the range of activity and turnover.
I can understand your disappointment because of Cascade flops. Toyota may be a chance for them.
For me, personally, it doesn't matter if Japanese or Chineese, or Indian, Korean or some Arabic company makes a purchase of european brand till the production, people, culture etc stays here. This is only the capital issue. Maybe in some years the company will be repurchased by another guys.

Well... these posts are getting too long.
Nobody wants read such a lenghty scribbles ;-)
You are right - let's see what happens.