Ok Lets look at a laden container handling Reach Stacker in Europe as this is the largest market for these machines. A standard Reach Stacker not a eco drive one will use 18L of diesel per hour at a cost of 1.1 euro per litter, the service cost of one of these machines wouldbe around 8 Euro per hour, lets say the machine cost is 450,000 euro so the Total Cost Of Ownership based over a 10 year life working 2,000 hours per year is Euro 1,006,000. the rental price of our reach stacker would include fuel and service would be 79,000 euro per year or 790,00 for the full 10 year life. also our machine will produce 0kg of CO2 compared to 964,800kg of CO2 from the standared Reach Stacker.


we said way back in March this pandemic will have a massive effect on OEM's, we are now seeing this in their 1st half results, The full year results will be even more dredfull. What will happen before the mid point in 2021 will be a number of OEM's in the Larger truck market go out of business or be taken over. Hyster will anouce the Closing of Nijmegen and look for a partner on their smaller trucks.

Most of the other major OEM's have something to cover the sustainable market in big trucks, What hyster have is a hydrogen project that will end up seeing them being taken over because they won't be able to support the losses from this project

Agree - his dribble is like try to eat a soup sandwich.

It's the lowest cost of ownership as it does not exist, never before have I heard so much crap, to be honest I am thinking after 10 years plus of spouting nonsense about this mythical truck that it's all a big wind up!

So far you have get validated your claim of lower cost of ownership as ya' ain't produced unit number 1 or 1/2 of one to prove your claim.
But you have produced words on a piece of paper or two or on internet blogs.

The most amazing thing about all of this is the fact that the Admins still allow you to post this dribble.

well its nice to see Hyster still has some fans, well yes we din't give the full piture net income down78% Net profit Down 71%, at least our investors know we have a future in the markets we are targeting.


We have a lower Total Cost Of Ownership in all the catorgories we are looking at Counter balance forklifts over 10,000kg Empty Container Handling forklifts and Laden Conatiner Handling Reach Stackers. when compared to Diesel or battery Electric trucks.

We are the only company in the World that can offer 100% Zero emission with out the need for Battery Charging or Battery Charging infrastructre at a cost lower than Diesel or Battery electric.

Lets See how Hyster Yale Full year results are in either 2021 0r 2022 compared with ours.

So yes Hyster like all the other forklift OEM's will be hit even harder in the years to come

Exalted One
What is profit/loss on your world beater - zero emission, modular forklifts that breathe ammonia? Been in development for eons now but soon to be introduced/launched some time in the next quarter as you have so proclaimed. My guess your project has not even made a "Yankee Dime" but just incurred substantial R & D costs. Your investor must be very patients folks.

yeah chrisk he just saw the stats for hyster-yale and just couldn't wait to post it
given the state of the world economy right now because of the virus ALL markets are affected by it so all figures are down in our industry.
EVERYBODY has taken a loss to some degree.

He's only telling part of the story, not the whole story
Gee where have we seen this happen before? ??

Apparently you didn't even bother to read the article.

Well it dosen't look good for Hyster Yale, 23% drop in revenue , $8.3 Million Loss by Nuvera in the first half of 2020,

Yes this is my point, hydrogen is a clean fuel and is classed as 100% zero emission and if done correctly can be produced 100% zero emission. Ammonia is the same if done correctly its 100% zero emission the only thing coming out of the tail pipe is water vaper. Ammonia can also be produced 100% zero emission. So it all depends.

If you are working on Lithium iorn batteries that are ok in forklifts up to 5,000kg the reason for this is the KWH the tuck uses per hour. Over 6,000kg the heat and oportunity charging damages the battery quicker, yes it still damages the batteries of truck under 5,000kg but not as quick.


As for HFC truck i tottaly agree they are not really any good for materials handling aplications

" Just one question do you regard hydrogen fuel cell trucks as 100% zero emission or are the companies that make these making false claims."
That is a loaded question that falls within the questionable mumbo jumbo i mentioned.
There are conflicting claims and information that just muck up the whole thing like this:
one claim says: "What type of emissions do hydrogen fuel cells create?
Hydrogen can be produced from diverse domestic resources with the potential for near-zero greenhouse gas emissions. Once produced, hydrogen generates electrical power in a fuel cell, emitting only water vapor and warm air."
Another claim says: Do Hydrogen fuel cells produce co2?
Electric cars powered by hydrogen fuel cells don't produce greenhouse-enhancing carbon dioxide.... It burns with oxygen to make water vapor, and only water vapor-no soot, no nitrous oxides, no carbon dioxide with its potential greenhouse warming.
Another claim says: When the grid is decarbonised, hydrogen fuel cells cars will deliver emissions of 17gCo2 per km, while battery electric vehicles will deliver around 6gCO2 per km. Of course, this does not mean that the electrolysers, like EV charging stations, can't be fuelled by renewable energy.
So is that zero? No it is not.
Besides, i don't count HFC as a viable product in the lift truck industry, they tried it and it was so expensive to purchase and maintain and keep technitians trained and certified nobody wants it.

The V range will pass all air quality standards including CARB and EPA its 100% zero emission all that comes out of the tail pipe is water vaper, Just one question do you regard hydrogen fuel cell trucks as 100% zero emission or are the companies that make these making false claims.

As for li truck it would all depend on what weight you try them at. At a low weight under 5,000kg they seem ok but what you must consider is that if you are looking to fast charging. If you are looking to do fast charging you can't charge them if the battery is to cold or to hot the battery must be moderate temperature. Also, you must avoid fast charging of old and low performing batteries. On trucks over 6,000 kg that run a double shift operation the battery life of a Li battery might be as low as 24 months.

it's not just CARB its the standard set forth by EPA for nonroad-compression-ignition-2011-present vehicles it has to pass. But being he is in the UK if he doesn't bring these overseas to the US then he wouldn't have to bother with the US standards. I'm sure Euro standards are just as stringent though but i'm not familiar with their EPA environmental regulations so i can't say for sure. I'd have to do more research. Millbrook is just an orginization based in UK.
But like you said triumphrider, it has to pass this 100% he claims which i doubt it will unless they fudge the numbers or have a 'preset predetermined standard' that allows a range CLOSE to 0 or at least lower than previously used. There's always a loophole that allows such bold claims. So although it wouldn't be a 'true' zero emission, if it falls within the guidelines he can legally make the claim.
The legal mumbo jumbo set forth in the standard would allow people to make such claims unfortunately.
Knowing these basic things, people can be the judge on if they want to believe the actual zero emission claim or not. Those with even an ounce of common knowledge in IC knows it's all BS.

Dazzlin Dave ,until your wonder truck passes California Air Resource Board as 100% it isn't going to be squat. I am going to try a LI powered unit this year to see how it stacks up. Looked at and talked to people who run the crap out of the li units and only a couple of li battery brands seem to be the best. They are not cheap. You get what you pay for.