Discussion:
German forklift VS Japanese forklifts VS American forklifts

Who do you think has the best basic design ideas etc.
  • Posted 25 Sep 2015 20:29
  • Discussion started by heightlift
  • North, United Kingdom
Showing items 16 - 30 of 47 results.
Toyota rear axles are weak !!! In the the 20-35 8's
Almost on par with the old komatsu-11e 's !!
  • Posted 7 Nov 2015 19:50
  • Reply by bert_s
  • Helmand, Afghanistan
There's one more aspect to this dilemma.

In Europe 40 to 80% (depending to the country) of the new trucks on the market are sold with LTR or Full Service contracts.
Because the forklift bussiness floats in the "deeply red ocean", the operational costs and the market value of the second hand machines (remember the residual value of the machines calculated in LTR contracts) are highly significant.

That's why the European brands (at least the leading ones, like Linde, Jung, or Still) are designed to have the reduced maintenance costs.
Other words - the basic inspections (oil and filter replacements) on Linde or Still trucks should be done every 1000 hours or once in a year. Hydraulics and cam belts and rollers - every 3000 hours, hydraulic oil - every 6000 hours.
In comparision - the Japanese or Korean trucks require the inspections and replacement ~ twice as often.
It means that the operational costs of European brands are significantly lower.
  • Posted 6 Nov 2015 23:53
  • Reply by Karait
  • Poland
I know your deepest secret fear...
J.M.
Burtkwok, you hit the nail on the head.
  • Posted 6 Nov 2015 22:51
  • Reply by triumphrider
  • Texas, United States
Folks are being to generic, i've bought Linde trucks for a long time now in the UK, they've always been a class leading product and speaking to our operators, they would never drive a torque converter truck, but that is just looking at counter balance.
The thing is i am buying PPT, riders, reach and VNA, so cannot hang everything on one truck preference, you have to take a balanced view of what your site needs and at some point in the process you have to make a compromise on one product that is less important if the benefit of the other product far outweighs it.
The key thing picked up by others in the forklift world is service, i always say to our directors, that in 3 years, no one will remember what we paid for the trucks, but they will be on the phone moaning about downtime and despite what people say about price, the big companies will negotiate, you just have to tell THEM the spec you want, rather than let the manufacturers dictate spec to you, it really isn't that difficult in my eyes.
I've just recently done a deal with Crown, as the VNA (which i think is the best VNA on the market) was the main driver of the complete fleet proposal, the rest of the kit was supplemental (i.e. everyone can do the small stuff ok, but the productivity of the VNA will override what the C5 is doing in the yard.
I'd say in the last 2 - 3 years Linde have gone down in my estimation, the service structure in a small country like the UK is chaotic, too many people too regionalised and you can't always get to the right person who can make a decision, and the product quality is falling if you ask me, too much plastic, too easily damaged.
The Crown's are built to last, they'll take a knock, have some innovative ideas, infolink is by far and away 1 to 2 years ahead of what anyone else has got, although not a popular product in the UK, their structure seems strong, rental availability not so good, but i can live with that.
I'd say Crown are making all the right noises right now, if they get into the hydrostatic market with the C5 at some point, they will clean up.
But, that's just my opinion.
  • Posted 6 Nov 2015 07:41
  • Reply by BurtKwok
  • West Yorks, United Kingdom
Well they run full throttle in extreme conditions in the Middle east OK, These telematic can only check things like the metal in the flow of hydraulic oil with magnetic technology or check the temperature of the trucks major components , but a basic truck will check the temp. The major problem is clutch plates sticking in torque converter transmissions or over heating engines causing head-gastric problems this can be caused by blocked radiators.
  • Posted 29 Oct 2015 23:13
  • Modified 29 Oct 2015 23:15 by poster
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Lets see a "basic" truck run at max load , full throttle in extreme harsh Texas heat and see how long the thing lasts. You have to spec out the unit to its application reguardless of what brand it is.These extra alarm , bells and whistles are what makes a "basic" unit a functional , low cost of operation unit. Yes there are some operations that all they need are a cheap lift truck but most companies do not like to listen as to why their unit is broke down , not producing revenue. The price/ cost issue is usually moot at this point.
  • Posted 29 Oct 2015 21:46
  • Reply by triumphrider
  • Texas, United States
People are now looking at telmatics as the future of lift trucks
But do customers really want these products. These systems add costs to the truck as well as making products more difficult to repair.

Some OEMs will say that customers will benefit from this new technology but do the customers agree,Companies like Hyundai and Doosan are now selling well in all markets with a basic truck that is not over complicated and easy to maintain
  • Posted 29 Oct 2015 06:56
  • Modified 29 Oct 2015 06:58 by poster
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Ok, here goes. I had a customoner that put an excess of 15,000 hours on a unit in less than three years. Units under full maint. 24/7 type of operation. Lease units. Swap out bottles and go. Those units were worn out. The down time for these units was and still is very low. A twenty year old unit that is down not moving product is not producing revenue for the user is just so much scrap metal in the way. The replacement units usually have been up graded from the last time the units were replaced.
  • Posted 19 Oct 2015 21:48
  • Reply by triumphrider
  • Texas, United States
It's been awhile since this thread started but I felt the need to post a reply.

It really doesn't matter which brand you buy (excluding the Chinese stuff). Most are comparable.

What isn't comparable is the service you get after purchase. If you have some knucklehead service tech taking care of your equipment your cost of ownership will be high. If you have a conscientious tech, who cares about the quality of his/her work, then your cost of ownership will be average or lower than average.

My recommendation would be do more research on the selling dealer than the brand and you come out a winner every time.
  • Posted 19 Oct 2015 05:28
  • Reply by batman
  • Pennsylvania, United States
Once upon a time, Toyota sold automobiles and lfit truck in the US a very attractive pricing well below US manufacturers pricing. Once they they established a quality reputation and secured a significant market share, their pricing significantly changed. I fully realize the exchange rate, USD to yen, had some impact on that as well the anti dumping suit (on all forklift imports from Japan) in the US in the mid 1980's.

My understanding that Linde hydrostatics dominate the European market - no so much in the US - less than 5% market share after 40 years since introduction to the US through the Baker Material Handling purchase by Linde. Saw my first Linde unit in 1972 ( painted white w/ some blue & red strips, model B80P I think, air cooled engine, 8000 lb. pneumatic, big enough to land an air craft on the counterweight). No doubt there are significant difference in how US tax laws, accounting principles, etc widely differ than those in Europe plus no matter how high a barrel of oil goes, fuel (gasoline, diesel, propane) is still much cheaper in the US.
  • Posted 4 Oct 2015 04:48
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States
On another point Toyota selling hydrostatic trucks for the same price as torque converter might be working. In 2013 - 2014 Toyota seen their turnover grow by 747 mill, while in the same time KION seen their turnover decreases by 65 mil making the gap at the top 1.187 billion euros.
  • Posted 3 Oct 2015 22:12
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Yes I would agree with you on this point about truck life when you look at engine transmission and hydraulics,but the chassis,ballast,steeraxle will last up to 20 years. Now when tries wear out you dont change the hole truck you just change the worn out parts. So why not do the same and lower cost.
  • Posted 3 Oct 2015 21:57
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Just of few comment on you insite
1. Most people will agree the average economical life span of a truck is 10-12,000 operating hours - just do some Google research - there are some good articles that validate this point. At an average useage rate of 1600 operating hours per year (single shift operation) that equates to 6.25 -7.5 years.
2. In the US it is most common that the leasing company is on the hook for the residual value at the lease end, unless the selling dealer wishes to guarantee the residual - most do not.
3. That makes sense but if the end user opts to release new equipment then rates stay pretty much the same depending on the interest rate change & price increases on new equipment.
  • Posted 3 Oct 2015 20:50
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States
I can see your point,but there are a couple of problems with this system,


1 forklift useful live is around 21 years but because of wear to components rentals tend to be 5 years meaning 70 percent of truck life not fully utilized.eavan lower on three rentals.


2 because of residual values needing to be high the dealer is at a financial risk if use truck can't be sold for a set price.

3 on the shorter term hire the customer will pay higher prices when renewing truck everything goes up in price.

The customer likes the freedom of having less commitment to the hire companies but in the end they will pay a higher price for the service.


What would be better is a hire with no commitment that uses truck overall life better and keeps down time down
  • Posted 2 Oct 2015 23:03
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
One thing you need to put into your thought pattern is that in North America a very popular way to acquire the use of new equipment is through the fair market value lease w/ the 5 years lease the most common and Toyota made the 3 year FMV lease very popular with great montly rates that competition had a hard time meeting. At the end of the term the customers turn in the equipment & it is sold in the second hand market and the customer get new equipment. So why would users want to incur higher monthly lease payments for a more expensive equipment that will last for ions. All they want is equipment that will perform well, safely & reliably during the lease period.
The second hand market buyer is price sensitive & is commonly a low hour use application.
Once upon a time, when I was a much less experience person than I am now & fresh out of the university, it was very common that the buyer of new equipment would keep a forklift 10 years on the average and usually was a cash buyer. But Clark introduced & promote the concept of 'financial" merchandising to the lift truck industry and soon Hyster (the #2 player at the time) followed, then other jumped into the program.
  • Posted 2 Oct 2015 20:45
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States

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