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80 Volt Pneumatic
I am a sales person for a Cat/Clark dealer in FL. I have had a little luck converting IC pneumatic customers to 80 volt this year. We are considering ordering several units for stock and would like to know if any one else has been able to convert and how are the trucks holding up? Have you seen a decrease in your customers operating cost?
  • Posted 20 Jul 2011 12:54 AM
Total replies: 22. Showing items 1 - 20 of 22 results.
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Replies
Sold similar units to the power companies in GA called EMC. Units worked well (biggest complaint - the are too quiet for NASCAR country) - the Linde unit and I assume the unit you sold were set up for working in the rain as standard - sealed this & that's water gutters, etc.
Our EMC's are sort of like electrical power co-ops. They are in the business to promote "buying electricity" over natural gas so they need to practice what the preach - I weaved that thought into to my sales pitch (less direct than stated above of course).
Just make certain your service folks are trained on the units & have more than one set of service software to take care of the units. At the time these units were sold the service department was armed with one laptop load with software & one trained tech - a road tech. This caused some issues as you might imagine.

"Have An Exceptional Day!"
  • Posted 20 Jul 2011 03:22 AM
  • • Modified 20 Jul 2011 03:28 AM by poster
If the product is sold and an order not taken,,,and you use a true 80 volt approach then you will be successful. Your service department will be your worst headache and problem (doesn't matter whose 80 volt you sell Linde, Jung,) Most service departments are resistent to doing things a different or new [url removed] of them can't tell the difference between a monthly PM and scheduled maintenance...
  • Posted 22 Jul 2011 12:06 AM
  • EasyM
  • South Carolina, United States
BleedGreen, is Cat and Clark your only option? Do you also have the Linde line?
  • Posted 3 Aug 2011 10:37 PM
NMHG (Hyster/Yale) also makes a 80 volt pneumatic.
  • Posted 4 Aug 2011 11:50 PM
You are correct NACCO does offer a light duty short cylce 80 volt truck. For the user in light duty operations it will work fine. Heavy duty, hard application, more than 3 hours run time, it won't hold up. Just not their specialty
  • Posted 5 Aug 2011 12:22 AM
DO you have the Linde Line? If not Why Not?
  • Posted 5 Aug 2011 05:51 AM
Gotta agree, IMHO Linde do make the best counter balances, we very rarely get a problem with them & the newer machines are laid out well under the bonnet & there pretty easy to work on.

The newer Linde trucks do look like they have been designed with ease of maintenance in mind.
  • Posted 6 Aug 2011 06:55 AM
Linde makes a good truck for the europe and europe, its really never taken off in the usa, every time I have seen a linde that someone purchased, it was gone five years later or when ever the lease or purchase matured.

The units are way over priced, parts are (ALWAYS ON ORDER) OR BACK BACK BACK ORDER.

How much marketshare they have???

Linde is a great idea on paper on sells well on presentation but does not hold up in the market with service and parts support.
  • Posted 20 Aug 2011 02:49 PM
Sorry pipe fab but don't really think you are correct. I've sold Lindes and they are not shot after 5 years. Just a simple example. Had a customer that operated a Linde E15C 3 wheel, 3k, 24v electric , triple side shift in a manufacturing operation (bolt machining - oil & shavings forever present) and finally traded it in after 18,800 hours (main reason the battery & charger were shot - truck was still running fine) on another one.

No doubt the ICE line are niche machines, that work well in "dirty, nasty" operations like block, paper recycling, concrete, ready mix, lumber and hold up well where others have tried.

I do understand when a lease (capital and operating) matures but explain to me and others when does a purchase mature?

Like any product the first line of customer support is the local dealership. I worked for a dealer that the first line was the Linde line - the parts support & trained service techs was there.
If a line is not the primary line of a dealership then often, not always, the support is not where it should be.
No doubt all lift truck companies have experienced extended lead times on critical parts, especially those that are proprietary and are sourced from across either pond - saw that on Manitou, Mitsubishi/Cat, Komatsu, Clark, Lancer Boss. For starters, it is difficult to to cut shipping time on the 30 day boat ride & impossible to expedite anything through [url removed] Customs (if you try - you'll succeed in getting moved back to the end of the line). Air freight is not out of the question, except for the freight cost charge.

"Have An Exceptional Day!"
  • Posted 21 Aug 2011 12:12 PM
A matured lease is a lease that has run its course. (FMV) or (FPO) whether it be a 36, 48, 60 month term. It has ended.
I stand behind my statement and experience of dealing with customers who have lease or purchased Lindie Products. I have not known of anyone who bought electric. My dealings with people who were not happy with them have been with the [url removed] units. I am not and have not said it’s a bad product. It really works well in Europe and they love them. Maybe the dealers do really well with support, I do not know that. What I do know is that companies in general who lease or purchase have not been repeat buyers. I know of one deal wear a shipping company bought a new big truck, three months after delivery the transmission failed, not sure of what or how it happened, they no longer have the Lindie. They now have another brand.
Most of the Lindie dealers that I know of like the one in Houston do have many lift truck lines. I think the concept is good, but the support with parts has continued to cripple the brand name and image in American Market.
You have other manufactures in the market that guarantee parts in 24 hours, with some restrictions.
So to clarify my opinion, Lindie makes a great product, great ideas, but all things made by man need service and parts etc. It just been my experience that the level of dealer support is not that great compared to other brands on the American market.
  • Posted 22 Aug 2011 01:00 PM
One of the biggest problems the industry have with trucks like Linde and Jungheinrich is the dealers who think they can service [url removed] never want to spend any training dollars and always want to point fingers at the factory. Same old story. We have seen all the 80 volt trucks and where the dealer has made the investment in training and tools, there is never an issue. As I said, the fault is not with the equipment but with the knuckle busters that still think that wrenches and thoughts from 20 years ago will fix today's trucks (regardless of color or brand) it won't work...
  • Posted 22 Aug 2011 10:14 PM
I used the electric as an an example - there are repeat buyers of ICE trucks also - [url removed] a major paper recycler with two locations - one here in GA & an other location in the NE uses 15K pneumatic with bales clamps. and others
Again, if a dealer & manufacturer is going to represent a product they need not treat it like a "step" child. There are several multi line dealers that commit to supporting the Linde products they represent & sell. Maybe it is a Texas thing.
I am aware of the 24 parts guarantee by "CAT" dealers - that was started in 1992 with MCFA start-up. Strange thing the same product painted Green with parts coming from the same distribution centers doesn't have the same marketing program - maybe it is something like "myth marketing".

The Linde machine has been around a long time in the US market starting with an association with Baker (ie Baker/Linde line) - Duetz air cooled engines etc & as big as a small aircraft carrier.

When you say the trucks fall apart after the finance term aren't you saying the products don't hold up that equals a not good products or am I just confused.

I'll betcha' the European market are not that unlike as the US market. They just live a lot closer together.

"Have An Exceptional Day!"
  • Posted 22 Aug 2011 10:33 PM
Thank you (Just a Guy) there is more to a dealership then just a product line and a Tax ID#........
  • Posted 23 Aug 2011 04:27 PM
I disagree with Just a Guy. It is not just the dealer who is responsible and that is a mind set that "factory people" have to change. Look at it this way, all dealers that sell new trucks also sell used ones. Think about how many customers that have bought a new truck(s), whatever the brand, will never buy from that dealer again. Now look at how many customers who have bought used trucks from a dealer that feel the same way. Not many in my case.
One huge issue with selling new equipment is that you no longer have control over your own reputation- the factory does. That needs to change.

duodeluxe
  • Posted 25 Aug 2011 02:51 AM
I have been with a dealer for about 18 years and while I hear what you are saying most dealers do lean on the factiry more than they should. Our dealership does it all the time and we aren't a very small group. My personal feeling is that if a dealer cannot adequately support the product, (parts, service, warranty, rental) then that dealer should drop that line of equipment. We have dropped a few lines and we became a better company for it...
  • Posted 26 Aug 2011 02:37 AM
duodeluxe,
I'm sorry but I don't see much difference in how one should takes care of a customer whether they sell them a new unit or a used unit. The major difference is in the GP associated with each type of sale. Any issues with the factory on new equipment should remain as conversations between the dealer & factory. Certainly, used equipment was first brought to the market place as an end user purchase or financed unit or dealer rental fleet - STR or LTR as a new unit which later turns into a source for future used. Good used equipment can be hard to find unless you grow your own and the devil you know is usually better than the one you don't know. And most used equipment sales are dealer "reburbished" or "reconditioned" units.

"Have An Exceptional Day!"
  • Posted 26 Aug 2011 12:42 PM
Sorry but I don't see much relationship between my post and you conclusions. I think you misunderstood my points.

duodeluxe
  • Posted 29 Aug 2011 09:31 PM
In your last two sentences it is stated:

"One huge issue with selling new equipment is that you no longer have control over your own reputation- the factory does. That needs to change."

My point is that whether a dealer sells new (even ship-in or national account direct sale units) or used a dealer CAN CONTROL their reputation with the end-user.

"Have An Exceptional Day!"
  • Posted 30 Aug 2011 01:55 AM
  • • Modified 30 Aug 2011 01:56 AM by poster
So when you sell a new truck and a part is either hugely overpriced or is on backorder for 2 weeks what do you do to control that? In the event of the same thing happening on a used truck there is usually a much greater population of trucks out there where you can find a used one.
What about issues with a new series truck which just about every manufacturer has. Unfortunately sometimes these costs are eaten by the dealer in the name of customer service.
I have read many ofyour other posts and they are thoughtful and well written but in this case I think you're coming across as a bit of a lecturer. We all have our philosophies.

duodeluxe
  • Posted 30 Aug 2011 04:20 AM
I have not known at any time when parts have high prices (typically on proprietary parts, that the me too parts houses haven't had time to back engineer)) on certain items or on back order for any brand, model or type of equipment and age (new or used).
But this is my opinion based on 41 years of experience in the industry and like navels every one has an opinion - you have yours, I have mine - I am sharing my opinion with you - you have a choice think about or not. But customer's, with cash or at least that pay their invoices, are king and dealers need to take care of them some how some way. Certainly factories need to treat their dealers as customer too & have been known to take parts off of new equipment inventory to keep the dealers end user happy. I've carried parts through airports (before 9/11) or in the trunk of my car to keep customer satisfied. An old business theorem is you will loose 10% of your current customers/employees every year no matter what you do holds true today. It is a lot easier to work to keep them than let them go down the street. Then it takes ions to get them back. Life is full of choices & risks.

"Have An Exceptional Day!"
  • Posted 30 Aug 2011 11:39 AM
  • • Modified 4 Oct 2011 09:11 PM by poster
Total replies: 22. Showing items 1 - 20 of 22 results.
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