Fork Knows!

If you read their literature they talk about incorporating automotive technology into their lift trucks. The SAS system came from Lexis

Sucess breeds failure.
I've always felt that the reason Toyota "was" #1, both in forklift truck and automtive sales, was that they were the best at marketing but not manufacturing products.
I'd love to know how much the love affair that Consumer Reports has had with them has not only contributed to thier success but also to the demise of the american auto industry.

---

wow, i didn't know people hated toyota so much. i have experience with almost all brands and i think they are #1 because the last longer and are easier to fix (labor wise). the parts are expensive but they are pretty tough. i think the whole issue with the speed control problem on the auto side has been blown completely out of porportion in part because of the long (and remarkable) absence of recalls on their products. every other manufacturer has had problems like this and they have corrected them and gone on without a freakin congressional hearing. it is a horrible tragedy that people have been injured but toyota shouldn't have to be bankrupted over it. i am a ford guy for personal reasons but i think toyota is getting way too much press over this and i think it has to do with the fact that some of their plants are non union.

---

Not certain if a congressional hearing was involved, but the Big 3 certainly got a lot of press on similar issues. To name a few GM with the Corvair - Ralph Nader even published a book about it " Unsafe At Any Speed"; Ford with the Pinto, Explorer, can't recall if it was Ford or G-M with fuel tank blow-up on their pick-ups. Toyota has a serious issue & they shouldn't be sheltered from similar treatment - especially after their comments to the effect "we are not certain the floor mats and brake pedal fix will totally resolve the issue." The public, especially the Toyota owners need to know. And yep, I owned a '65 Corvair Monza & a '78 Ford Pinto and a '98 Ford Explorer.

johnr, you're absolutely right. Not to mention the fact that Toyota stakes it's reputation on quality... that's not something I made up, it's what they have been advertising for years. I can respect the uncertainty at this point because it is a complex issue, but if you make your name on quality, you better maintain that as your core value. Obviously it's a potential conflict of interest with the government bail-out and ownership of GM, but so far I don't see any extraordinary treatment negatively towards Toyota.
Regarding the Toyota lift trucks... it's no secret that they have benefited from the brand recognition of their automotive counterparts. (though I personally don't see why. Their lift trucks aren't that great and they may borrow technologies, but I think they work as completely separate entities). So, it only seems logical that they would also suffer (slightly) when the automotive brand image suffers. I don't have any numbers to support that, but I would be interested if someone did.
Overall, if the Toyota automotive group handles this swiftly, the long-term effect will not be too detrimental. It's completely up to them now, how people will look back on this in 10 years.

I agree that Forklift business have benefited from Toyota's success in the automotive business, however many customers consider Toyota's forklift as one of the best in the industry. And they have been No1 in Material Handling since [url removed] only a good brand name they would not have been there today.

The size of todays recalls from manufacturer are becoming larger and larger, there are two resons behind this; car industry is becoming more and more consolidated and manufacurer tend to use components, such as the gas pedal, as common component in all models to get the benefit of economy of scale and reduced development [url removed] is doing it and when the largest, such as Toyota, face problems with a component or design it becomes very big [url removed] draws of course alot of attention in Media..

There is the Official comment from TICO public relations department regarding Toyota car recall issue.

The affected accelerator pedal for Toyota vehicles is different from the accelerator pedal for Toyota materials handling equipments (including Toyota lift truck) in parts and mechanism. Consequently, there is no possibility that any similar problems will occur related to our products. Please use our products at ease.

Toyota Industries are making a concerted group-wide effort for assuring quality of its products thoroughly, including daily quality management and quality inspection by top management as well as built-in quality activities from the development phase. Therefore, Toyota Industries offer products and services that customer can use with safety and ease. Should any quality problems occur related to our products, Toyota Industries Group place the highest priority on customer’s safety and address the problems promptly according to laws or regulations of each country in order to fulfil manufacturer’s responsibility

I would argue that the "we are #1 in sales" argument you use is the root cause of the perception by those who do not like Toyota. Just not pointed out quite so clearly.

---

Attitude: We can make all kinds of claims to justify what happened but my question to you and others is simple. "What would you feel like if you owned one of those affected vehicles & that vehicle was your only one?" Wouldn't hat be something liek playing "Russan roulette" until it go fixed.

Further, my understanding is the manufactuer of this pedal is also a supllier to other makes (mostly Japanese brands) but at this point they don't have this issue. Could it be the design for Toyota?

Dear Johnr_j,
I did not try to justify, just explain my thoughts about reasons behind.
It is of course a tragedy for everyone involved when injuries and death is caused by product due to faulty design, part or manufacturing process.
Cars, as well as many other products, are recalled quite often, mostly for issues that are not related to safety of the car and hence not an urgent matter from a safety point of view.
I agree with those that says that Toyota's reaction was slow and inappropriate considering the nature of the problem.
Knowing a bit about the business culture in Japanese companies it does not come as a surprise that the reaction was slow, that's unfortunately how it works in Japan in all matters…discussed and evaluated over and over again before a decision(and reaction) can be made.
We can only hope that Toyota learn from their mistakes.....

cool catch phrase (sean j) "fork knows" keeps me from profanities, thanks.

---

You don't realy think this is an issue with the gas pedal do you ? Oh thats right maybe it's the floor matt.

In the UK Toyota use the catch phrase "The car in front is a Toyota" in their car ads.

The joke now is "The car in front is a Toyota, because it won't stop"

No problems on the toyota forklifts, just keep watching out for the other brands. Toyota is still the best thing, this from a old Hyster man. I would never betray a hyster till the take over happed. I thought I would never say this, but, bang for the buck, toyota is the choice.

I would guess Sparkie went from a Hyster dealership to a Toyota dealership.
I am pretty sure that most techs would agree that ALL designs of all products have some compromises. No product is "no problems", and the denial of problems does not make them non-existent.

---

Hi Edward

You are right all forklifts are going to have problems and not admitting to them is a problem on its
own. To be able to solve a problem first you have to admit you have one. basically all fork lift trucks have not
changed since Clark first designed one 90 years [url removed] have limited space to work and all have faults.
All use same engines Cummings Volvo on big trucks and about six different ones on smaller trucks. So
yes there are basically all the same with the same problems

i think every tech is biased to the brand that he is most familiar with. i have 30 years in the lift truck bsns and have seen quite an evolution in the peripherals but as dave said, lift trucks aint changed a whole lot in the last 30 years except to get more complicated. that said some are less labor intensive than others. i have seen a toyota 4y engine in a 7 series truck removed in 57 minutes. i have also seen a head gasket replaced (no milling) in 45 minutes. i know i am biased but if they're all going to be complicated to repair an old fart like me will opt for the easy to access any time.

---

Its the brand of Toyota that is damaged not the product. If you look at the turnover Toyota its more than the 3rd and 4th brands put together. when you think of Toyota you think of quality but now as they were so slow to
respond to there problems in there cars that brand quality is damaged. Now when you see or here the name
Toyota its probably part of a joke about there cars this will only damage there image and the brand.So when customers look at there products there thoughts will be about how slow they were in responding to the problems with there cars

You are correct Dave160, it is the brand name as a whole which gets a bad name out of issues like this. The general public do not link it to divisions within an international company or the products they produce, they just think "Toyota"