simple Normandy - entering consultation and thats it since last thursday. nowt else apart from we will be expected to work free overtime before long(banked hour system) to get orders out! morale is low on the shop floor , brandon & charlie are walking about like the chuckle brothers with thier knuckles dragging on the floor>>

With the recent report on FA.com what is the word from those in the know

What have Kion said to the staff ?

The point that you are making is defenatly correct Service with out doubt is the most important part of any company.

Another point now is can Merthyr be saved and made profitable the answer to this is yes. So here is the next question dose Linde want it Saving

In agreement there pal, project 13 seems to account for customers of that company in a certain region waiting days whilst engineers are faffing around sending texts to the transport office where people lose them, send you another text, and then send 'overdue lists' THIS MADNESS HAS TO STOP engineers are already so cheesed they're about to blow.

Customers have to be put first..........not endless unlucky 13 projects with out of date lists etc etc

Without customers FLT factories shut as we've seen today, the pressure is on for all of us.

All makes of trucks seem to have a 'technological trump card' of one sort or another in their favour, I have seen all sort of useful gadgets & gizmos on european & far eastern machines but I think it is all about the service company can offer an end user.

Remember the saying 'A happy ship is an efficient ship'

So managers take heed, with margins so slim you need to be efficient & stop putting more & more obstacles in everybody's way

Profit at all cost seems to be the way big business are going, give me a manager that has come through the ranks any day, they have been at grass roots and seen how a company develops and what is required to succeed, nowadays they seem to come straight from university with X amount of degrees with little knowledge of the fundamentals, they will have a model and call it something crazy like project 13, demoralise the workforce and lose a lot of good people, YOU CAN'T BUY EXPERIENCE! then blame the workforce for loosing the customer base.

I worked at LHTD for some years. Since the retirement of a certain Scotsman the factory has suffered.
Successive MD's have pretty much caused what has happened today. Taking deals at any cost, employing people with no knowledge or managerial skill, forcing people out who actually contributed to the business.
Profitability can be measured in many ways. covering costs, contribution to the overall business, full line supplier etc. all impact a factory. Bean counters really only look at one thing. Basingstoke factory closure is a case in point.
Managers by title doesn't mean they are managers by deed.
It is indeed a sad day for many people in Merthyr.

Mr friske - took the meeting today. cannot understand the comment "even in 2007 when producing 1500 353,s" merthyr still lost money? me dull? - plus other truck sales on top and no profit made? if that is the case we should have shut 15 years ago but we made millions then. even bailed out basingstoke on numerous occasions. one thought we talked about today was there are 47 managers on the telephone logs who work in a factory with 203 employees ? rest my case....

http: // www. bbc.co.uk / news / uk-wales-21273075

Local news on bbc confirmed that the factory is in a 90 day consultation period with its employees.

outlook not looking to good for the staff at merthyr site..

There is a lot of people who feel the same way , they have given a lot of years service to a company and then to find out they might be out of work with in 18 month.

The meeting tomorrow might be a bit colourful i can't see Linde coming Clean on all this. They will say there is so many roomers going around and none of them are true. But KION did say that they had not sold to the Chines only for the day after to say they had


I hope for the workers at Mertyr it turns out well Its hard on the employment front in that part of the UK and it could do with out loosing more jobs. If KION are to move out then they should do a least one good thing and sell the facility to another forklift manufacture who would create employment in the area. If this was to happen there would be quite a lot of interest inside the industry in Merthyr but companies don't like to sell to there competitors especially such a modern facility with a good work force.

Dai - can i come and work for you when i,m destitute and about to be thrown out of my home, i,ll lick your feet and walk your dog everyday?? ok joking , but this affair is leaving a real bitter taste in my mouth.

Hi Dai T


There is a lot of good people at Merthyr who deserve there jobs. In my opinion it wont be long before another manufacture will move into the area. The local Government there was very supportive of Linde when they took over from HALA and gave them a lot of support only to have jobs and products moved away.


Linde wont let the site go to another company in forklift

davelift - you have been quite accurate with your predictions so far. sat on my hands for a while but felt the urge to post as there is a big meeting tomorrow which we,re all expecting closure. i,d love to comment on how we,ve been managed over the last seven years but cannot express my feelings freely as they now have a culture of sack someone if they sneeze out of place! but we were lucky enough to have a production manager who apparently sold kitchen,s before linde?
over the years we produced trucks as the H50/80 to the 353 to a better standard than the germans.we developed the 359 for them and then they took that to achaffernburg leaving us nowt. fabrication and fitting have played their part and did everything asked of us. now highly skilled people are about to be thrown on the scrap heap for no fault of our own.
from a business point of view - how can you have the same amount in the "office" part as the shop floor workers???

Hi RobbyN

It's OK i don't have a Confidentiality docs as i don't work for any of these companies. From what i know Linde have been told by KION to stop loses in the business at all cost and not to do any sales deals were loses will be involved. This is in preparation for the sale of KION later this year. In doing this Linde wants to concentrate on materials handling equipment up to 16,000kg manufacturing and to offer bigger equipment to customers who they already supply.


It all comes down to numbers and profit and loss the business is now run by financial people who see how they can best get back there investment.KION now see that by having most of there manufacturing in Germany for Europe they can cut a lot of cost's and be seen as more efficient in there manufacturing.

They want only three main manufacturing bases Germany China and Brazil with some type of assembly work in North America and India.

It is because of this even though Merthyr in my opinion could work that i think they will shut this later this year or early next
year , the only way they will keep this open is to bring in a lower priced truck like baoli to assemble at merthyr and hope they can get the numbers up But as France take around 20%- 25% of KION Busines they would put the plant there.


They might ask Kone to take over Merthyr but the numbers just wont add up and i think it will close some time in the next 18 month this is my opinion and not one of these two companies.


So the big question is how do i know all this, well over the last year we have studied KION quite intensity and under stand there business we have done this with NACCO Kone TEREX and Carcotec as well i needed to do this from my own business and these are my conclusions about KION and Linde HTD



In companies like KION decisions are taken months in advance this is why i know the deal was done some time ago Kone was the most obvious choice as they have made large trucks fro Linde before and could do with a new ECH truck and 18,000kg - 32,000kg truck so Kone would want the deal. You might even see a joining of some sale and services with Linde and Kone

Davelift
Thanks for replying to my post. What I really meant to ask was when you said *But a deal was done with Kone quite some time ago* it would seem that it is common knowledge in the industry that kone have bought a part of 'htd' maybe container handlers (rights) etc?

You seem to have some inside info and by the sounds of it you know allot more than most. I take it you havent had to sign any confidentiality docs so could perhaps help the guys at 'htd' out with some more info. By the sounds of it they are being kept in the dark by the big corp guys and you seem like the kind of guy who helps people.

RobbyN To be honest we don't know at this point but it would not make a good deal for KONE to take over Merthyr unfortunately.

Kone have there own facilities and the extra work would be transferred there otherwise kone will just double there production cost's. The hope for Merthyr would be that Linde will move production of another product there but reading KION 3Q report it doesn't look good. KION have opened a new plant in Brazil and have closed plants in France Italy and the UK. They seem to be looking at production in different areas India China and Brazil while keeping Germany as there european base



KION have sold their closed facilities before to other industrial companies but not to Forklifts companies as they see this as helping the competition get a foot hold into the market KION will just sit on the site if they don't sell to another industrial company
like they have done with other places.

Hi Davelift my chum works at 'htd' so concerned for him - your last comment about a deal does that mean Kone are buying Merthyr factory?

I don't think Linde would let us have merthyr, the only hope that is they will bring in the new high volume small truck but your up against China and Brazil for that one ,


There is a product i know will fit into Merthyr but it will take UK Government help to get it sorted. It all depends on our own plans , but we could have bought Linde HTD out right if Kion wanted to sell. But a deal was done with Kone quite some time ago.

hey dave, wish u would take merthyr under your wing.
sounds like u got your head screwed on. all your predictions
have been bang on. kone were at lhtd 2 wks ago on the hush hush.
1401 off to germany. Side loadeors shelved. 1402 off to america or china. 357 to kone. 318 germany or china. No news of small high volume truck.
looks a bit grim dave. can u see any light...?

SAM 100 i don't work either at KION or Linde but my business means i do know what is going on in the heavy forklift market. As for looking at taking over Merthyr i don't think Linde will let it go to a competitor but we would make it work as we know a product that's in our planed new range that would fit there and turn Merthyr round. But for this to happen we will just have to wait and see what Linde has planed my forcast id Kone cranes will take over container handling and Linde will move production of the 10,000kg - 16,000 kg to Germany and China , Trucks over 16,000kg will come from Kone Cranes like before

Daveilift you seem to know a lot about Linde htd and Kion do you work for either of them and are using this to put things out before Linde and Kion do , If not would you take over Merthyr if Linde was to close it