I work on 6 03-04 mitsi fg25k /4g63 with IMPCO Cobra press reg / colmen electronic governors all computer feedback controlled

I think the K series engine is the evolution of the original H20. As emissions got tougher and engines had to run hotter they had to eventually switch to an aluminum head. Whenever I look at a K series engine I still see an H20.

Batman,
I would agree with you 100% on the H20 Nissan enigine being on of the best. What I'm a bit unsure of is why Nissan stopped making it? Did they just think they could make something better or couldn;t they get it to meet emmissions?

OK Toyotaman, here's the skinny on why MCFA no longer uses their own engine to power their forklifts. First, I can't say that all of this is 100% true since the information was gathered from different sources, none of which have first hand knowledge of why the switch actually took place. MCFA had a problem with the Woodward LP system which is still a carbureted system, not fuel injected. The Nissan K engine is fuel injected with a drainable LP vaporizer, which comes with a 3 year warranty. The Woodward system is a JB converter with a massive electronic gadget attached to the back of it to control fuel. Also the 4G engine had some head cracking issues. Another reason is that the Mitsubishi arm that makes the engines has absolutely nothing to do with the Mitsu arm that makes the forklifts, so they are really independent of each other and can make their own decisions. And, the Nissan engine had proved more reliable over the years. Doosan also went away from the Mitsu engine and went to a Hyundai engine for the Tier 3 trucks. My opinion is that there has not been a better performing industrial forklift engine in the past 20 years than the Nissan H20 series, except for maybe, I hate to say the Toyota 4Y which is just as reliable. Probably a good choice on MCFA's part to switch.

So I am still waiting to hear from a MCFA guy as to why they do not use the 4G64 engine.

I'll have to check into Clark using the Mitsi engine. I actually was not aware of that. Anyway, where is Mechanicsburg?

Batman,

Wow what a rant! Stay calm out there in Mechanicsburg. By the way Clark uses the Misti 4G64 engine and it is Tier 3 certified. So why doesn't MCFA use it?

Cat/Mitsu went to the K21/25 engine because Mitsubishi could not meet the Tier 3 standards by the time period set out by the Fed. I'm sure you will eventually see a redesigned 4G63/64 back in the Mitsi/Cat product in the future. Why not use your own engine? As far as why OEM's do different things to their lift trucks, the answer is easy: price. American companies build products under strict price guidlines, in other words a price is set from the start of the project and a piece of equipment is built around that price. That is the unfortunate American way. The European way is to design a piece of equipment to do a job, then price the equipment after development, whatever the cost may be. Example: Linde, Jungheinrich, Still forklifts. 30 - 40% higher up front cost than their American counterparts.
So, when you see an "American" forklift company change vendors or change design of components it is for only one reason: price. I think we can thank Walmart for this ridiculous American way of thinking, cheaper is better.

hello I have 6 MCFA mitsi 25k cushion tyre machines of 03 /04 vintage and wondering when did MCFA change to the K21 engine ?
second is the k21 related to the nissan kingkab truck engine ?
thanks
PS and other BIG changes post 04?

actually mcfa uses a nissan engine and builds the larger nissans in houston along with the mits and cat units

Just to clarify this for you Tom.

The 4G15/33/63/64 engines have been a part of the MMC (Mitsubishi Motor Corporation) business since they were separated from MHI and made a standalone company...which was many years ago.

So in reality MMC were simply a supplier of the engine and not tied into MHI.

New to this site, adding my thoughts to this, I had heard that MHI wanted to eliminate the engine plant that mad the 4G63/64 engine and that it was going to be a $ move to go w/ the K21-25 and TB45 in 2004 for EPA, still using the GM 4.3 in large cushion ( TB45 to long for this unit)

Stewart S - the Tusk truck is built by Komatsu with a Nissan engine as it has for many years and teh drive axle is made by Komatsu. I is the same truck as the Komatsu with red paint. Kalmar would no londer use the there name in the Kalmar AC name. So in the think tank at Komatsu the name Tusk was born.

I just got here to this site. I had to reply to this as I worked at Nissan dealer until last year and now work at a Cat and Mitsubishi dealer.

I was at the Nissan factory two years ago when they started collaborating with Cat and Mitsubishi. The engine is Nissan and the transmission is Mitsubishi. The "drive train" is the same in both and I recently saw a new brand (to me) called Tusk that had the same combination.

Having worked with both, I have seen many differences. They are different forklifts with the same propulsion system.

Last I heard Nissan was looking for a white knight and Mitsi/Cat and Nissan devolped a working partnerhip. Thus the cross-over to the Nissan design and power system.

If you really want to know something about it old towmotorque I may be able to help. I sold these in the early 60's.
I saw one of the old dial indicator finger set up plates around our shop a year or so ago. It was great on flat ground but had no torque multification like the clark H225, but you could not wear it out in a warehouse. Had a lot of hesitation that everyone disliked. jsut let me know at [email address removed]

Mr. Etharp:
Thanks very much for your quick response and offer to help me. When I have a more specific technical problem or question I will try and contact you. I am new to the BB and did not realize the email address would be taken out.
The reason I thought I would try and locate a factory service manual is it would help me alng the way whebn I am doing the restoration. I plan to disassessemble the machine and remove the engine and transmission in hopes to overhaul them.

In that I have the other two manuals I mentioned, I wanted to learn if Caterpillar or MCF ever printed a Service Manual. I did locate some service information on Microfiche that MCH contracted (I think) with the Bell and Howell Media firm to produce covering the Towmotor, but I was disappointed in that it was not very complete like the Printed Parts Manual I obtained from MCF. It was suggested that I try to contact some of the older dealers that might have some old manuals left over from the "Towmotor Years". Anyway thanks again for your reply and offer to help.
Respectfully
jamesemu (Jim) Musick in
Chicago Park, CA 95712

Gentlemen:
I am a novice as compared to all of the experienced persons posting the history related to Caterpillar and I have read these with great interest. As my favorite term "Towmotor" was mentioned I thought I might explain what I am trying to do with an older model Towmotor.
I am in the process of restoring it for personal use here on our farm.
The Model is of the 601P Series and has the somewhat unusual "ToMoTorque" Transmission.
My reason for telling all of this is I hoped that some of the older Gentlemem here might be familiar with this treasured old Forklift and be able to tell me if there is anywhere they might know of where I might locate a copy of a Factory Service Manual. I was able to locate a manual n the Transmission and a very complete Parts Manual from "MCF", but have been told there at one time was a General Service Manual published. MCF said they are out of print and my best chance of finding one (even one that I might photocopy), would be from the library of a shop or mechanic that might have saved one from years ago?
I appreciate hearing from anyone having any "leads", to send me an email at: [email address removed]
Thank you very much for any help any one can offer.
Jim (jamesemu)

Hey SKIPPER - You sound like you might know.... who is the Eng Mngr over hydraulics at MCFA. Or.... does anyone else know? Thanks!

Mat 03: that's a typical statement from a guy who only see's yellow, to say Nissan took the cheap route is ridiculous.We've put them side by side and they are both solid for today's standards.
The only real difference is that there aren't any Cat components on the Cat except for the yellow paint.
If you want a Nissan power plant you buy a Nissan not a copy cat.
I mean when you go buy a Chev do you request a Ford power plant?
Explain to me where you got your info from.