Hi deadand bloated yes KION did do a licencing agreement with linde gas for the name but that agreement runs out soon in certain markets.

This is why you are now seeing KION name take a more active role like in India and even in North america in a smaller way

Exalt, i think you missed this one. Linde purchased the rights to use Linde when they left Linde gas to the tune of $50 million. Hence the slight change in logo from the gas to Linde Lift trucks. Linde knew they could not afford to lose the name.

To oldtechguy. In US we work longer shifts, more hours, lift heavier and larger pallets and move more material. That explains the difference between crown and linde.

I agree it will be over time KION don't own the Linde Brand name this is owned by Linde Gas, When Linde Gas sold the materials handling division they changed the name to KION. KION only Licence the linde Brand name. KION now is an established company all on their own so it would make senses to use their own name.

It will probably be a phased name change, a bit like when Linde bought Lansing Bagnall and they were called Lansing Linde for a while before the Lansing name was dropped to leave just Linde.

I expect it to go the same way, such as Kion - Linde before the Linde name is dropped, i expect that will take 5 years, as most contracts are 5 years for most major end users on leases, etc.

So when will Kion stop using the Linde brand name and what will the new name be? KION ?

I've looked closely at Linde and Crown trucks in the last 12 month here in the UK, although the Linde product is excellent, their fragmented dealer network set up, especially here in the UK is a bit of a joke, if you've got depot that cross their dealer boundaries, you aren't going to be bored watching the local NNC's squabble amongst themselves.

Crown, i like the Crown product, infact i like the way it is built, sure it ain't pretty, but it is strong, plenty of metal and as most fork truck driver don't give a monkeys about what they crash into, ergonomically the Linde's are ahead of the game though.

In the eighties the Linde Hydrostatic was a tough sell due to price and diesel only. Dealers were not strong and in some cases the third line of product. Applications were limited. Today Linde is still only 2% ?? of the North American Market. They do have acceptable electric product but it's an uphill battle.

I started in the 70's as a Baker Lift Truck Mechanic in the USA. In the early 80's Linde purchased Baker to access their arguably weaken distribution network of Dealers. Prior to the purchase, Baker had not done a good job of updating their product offering which contributed to Baker's downturn. As one of the "Electric Techs" on staff I was excited to work on the new technology Linde offered in their trucks. Problems presented themselves almost immediately in the US market. High price of the imported equipment and their service parts were the first obstacles to overcome when lower cost alternatives were readliy available. The equipment became a concept sale where premium quality, better efficiency would provide the ROI necessary to justify the higher expense. Good Baker customers gave our new products a shot in the first round to test our claims. The Owners in the US cared little for the increased comforts of a Grammer seat for their Operators especially when they saw the replacement costs. The next problem was that the electrics started to burn up contacts tips, steering motors (especially the 2 brush versions) and hall effect sensors. The reasons I later determined was that in Europe it was usual for the trucks to be powered with 48 volt batteries which ran the circuits at lower amperages, especially at the end of shift. In the USA we had 48 volt batteries in circulation but it was much more likley to see 36 volt and in some 3-Wheel sitdowns 24 volt batteries.
Pallet trucks used thin walled oil-lite bushings that wore out faster than the competitors thick walled greasable bushings and required less attention when it came to replacement. Switches from Europe were more elegant than the US counterparts but were more prone to failure than the US counterparts, especially in freezers and docks.
Circuit boards were not locally repairable in the early years and required expensive OEM rebuilts (when available) or more often new units. Needless to say the Baker customers migrated to our competitors on their next purchases. After all a common saying I have heard in the USA, Germany and Sweden "Sales sels the first truck but Service sells the rest".
Since then I have worked for BT and Jungheinrich and seen both factories and spent time in Sweden and Germany. The market differences I have noticed include the education of most operators in the US is typically High School and lately some College. In Europe, I believe they are higher educated or at least have a higher respect for the equipment they operate. As result you will find that the US products tend to be Armour Plated tanks when compared to their European counterparts. Many Europeans I discussed this with gave me the impression that they considered US designed trucks un-inspired rather than meeting a US market demand. This sentiment was expressed to me in the US and in Germany when we discussed the Crown European offering.

What people might not know is KION don;t own the Linde brand name this is owned by the Linde gas company. KION only Licensed the name of Linde. You are now seeing the Chinese running KION and you will see more of the same coming from China , The Linde HT25T for example,The new E60 - E80 Range is the new Still electric 6 8 ton.

What comes next is a lower tech truck with Torque converter transmissions all Branded under the KION name. The fact that reported on here that the two CEO's from Linde and Still are going shows the way things are going for Linde Still and the rest of the companies inside KION.

Over the next couple of years Linde name will go from the markets. But in a way this might be good for KION as Linde name in only popular in European markets. linde percentage of the north american market is under 8%. The new 1402 truck from all accounts is not that good


Now before people say or well you don't like Linde or you are a former employee this is not true , When i said the Chinese had bought KION every one including KION said this was not True , when i said KIOn would close Linde Heavy Trucks again this was denied but both proved to be right.

The best way forward is just to say here we are a Chines controlled company who are going to market our product under just one brand and give quality and value for money to all customers for all markets , but this won't happen and again people will just say its all rubbish and linde name will always stay in the market , To them just ask Linde gas

I'm a strong proponent of any and everything Linde, I truly believe they produce the best lift trucks available. From the rumors I've heard regarding the new products which will be coming available in the years to come, it wouldn't surprise me if there was a shift to the Kion name. I would be embarrassed to have Linde's name on the upcoming "lower initial cost" trucks I've been hearing about.
Either way all we can do know is keep our fingers crossed that the new gear isn't complete crap!

I read your Post and looks very interesting.. thanks every one , i really appreciate the way you all post here..

Alpesh Shah
http://www.simplexfittings.com

I think when Datsun changed their name to Nissan it was a good move however Daewoo becoming Doosan was pretty questionable. Kion is a globally universal name and isn't easily attached to a country or region which I think is good.

Maybe the North American market is a little different. After all we have been in the lift truck business quite a bit longer than most of the world. Outside of China it is probably the largest lift-truck market in the world. I would guess that KION is just like everyone else, to be a winner and a leader you have to play in the North American market. If you don't your growth potential as a company for the future is very limited.

Actually many Toyota dealers are multi branded. The only one's that are still single line "contractually" are Hyster dealers. The exception being where they have molded Yale and Hyster dealers together as one.