Toyota 42-4FGC25:
Front right tire drags in reverse, works fine moving forward

I am looking at purchasing a lift, but when we tried driving it, the front right tire binds when in reverse and starts to drag. Everything works fine moving forward. When in reverse it does start to roll slightly but then binds. It doesn't lock up completely, and will move a little bit as the rest of the forklift moves, but causes the whole forklift to move somewhat sideways. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Just trying to determine if it is worth buying at a great deal and fixing myself.
  • Posted 15 Oct 2013 11:19
  • Discussion started by taylor_m
  • Utah, United States
Showing items 1 - 11 of 11 results.
Yes, trucks this small can have hydraulic system power brakes.
It is not a brake booster either.
With Toyota hydraulic system power brakes, you have a brake valve mounted on the front bulkhead that is fed hydraulic oil from the hydraulic pump. The entire brake system piping is filled with hydraulic oil all the way to the wheel cylinders.
Foot pedal linkage operates the brake valve to allow oil pressure to operate the wheel cylinders when service brakes are applied.
With these systems of old, a hydraulic pressure accumulator was included in the scheme to provide a back up brake pressure source if the engine dies or the hydraulic pump quits.
I don't know about the 2F and 4 F, models but I know for a fact that 3F models had this system and later 5F models have it too.
To my knowledge, beginning with the 6F models, hydraulic system power brakes are no longer available from Toyota on the 25 rated of trucks.
  • Posted 20 Mar 2014 14:53
  • Modified 20 Mar 2014 14:53 by poster
  • Reply by L1ftmech
  • Tennessee, United States
work 3 jobs huh?
when do you find time to sleep or spend time with family and friends? hehe ;o)
i could not imagine working 3 jobs, i worked 2 for quite a few years but i got my fill of it and decided that my day job was enough
cudo's to you man!

Sure the lift is old, and due to the age i think the term 'obsolete' is meant because of its age, the technology in it is outdated and alot of those trucks have been graveyarded or mothballed (besides the ones that get sold off at auctions and sold to the 'little guy') These 'mom and pop' businesses can get by purchasing an old lift like this because it isn't used very much so cost is fairly minimum when it comes to operating costs so i can understand bbforks response, he has made many claims about his dissatisfaction on the way the industry has gone and his hands are tied when it comes to the newer 'computerized' lift trucks.

Anyway to stay on topic here
stuck (or rusted) wheel cylinders have been mentioned
broken hardware (springs etc) which have been deemed not the problem now)
possible master cylinder? hmmmm.... duno bout that one
hydraulic controlled brake system? on a 4FGC25?... dunno bout this one either, never seen that on one of these this small, this old

What i suggest is to verify that the shoes are actually applying pressure to the hubs. Reason i say this is maybe they are glazed over or contaminated by brake fluid or oil? Just not enough friction to grab and hold well? I know from experience dealing with wet shoes that once they get oil or brake fluid in them they are useless, you will NEVER get them back to the condition they need to be to stop the machine properly no matter what you do to them. I have tried many methods to remove the oil or contamination and it just never does get it all out and it eventually comes back to the surface. Ultimately having to replace the shoes in the end.
So make sure those brake shoes are not contaminated, and if they are not then take some sand paper and rough them up and rough up the hub surfaces and make sure to re-wear them back in.
Another thing to pay attention to is the backing plates where the edge of the shoe seats against the raised surfaces of the backing plate, if there are grooves worn in the backing plate this will keep the shoes from moving, basically locking them down, no matter how hard you press the brake pedal they truck will not apply the right pressure to the shoes and the truck will not stop.
So make sure there are no grooves worn in the backing plates.

Slave cylinder? most brake systems do not have one , if your speaking of the cylinder on the transmission (some do have one of those) that is the inching valve that releases the transmission when the brake pedal (usually the left one) is pressed to allow for the transmission to disengage and let the operator feather the drive so he can 'inch' up to his load slowly. The only problem i've ever seen those have is leaking fluid into the transmission, (you keep having to add fluid but don't see where it is going)

And yes sometimes threads here get pushed down to the bottom if alot of time goes by and they get forgotten about. One would have to go digging around in old threads to find these unanswered ones like this one. Unfortunate but it happens :o/

Anyway plenty of suggestions to check here
good luck
  • Posted 20 Mar 2014 08:38
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
In response to Ed T- I have to disagree that this unit is "almost obsolete". For smaller end users these older trucks really fit the bill as they are non- electronic (therefore easy to work on & less expensive too) & parts availability is not a problem as of yet. I work on a number of these in little machine shops, beer distributors, etc & they work out great. I must agree however that if the intended use is a full 8 hr work day this may not be the best choice.
  • Posted 20 Mar 2014 03:33
  • Reply by bbforks
  • Pennsylvania, United States
bbforks (at) Hotmail (dot) com
Customers love technology- until they have to pay to fix it!
Do the brake linings appear to be nice and thick? Maybe thicker than the age and hours of the truck would suggest?
If so, it is possible that someone put brakes on it and the truck simply has not had enough real use to wear the new shoes into conforming to the drum.
If the shoes are not all that thick, then the idea that one of the pistons in the wheel cylinder might be rusted stuck to the cylinder bore moves higher on the list.
But, it is unusual for this to occur except in trucks that are left out in the weather all the time, and are left sitting unused for long periods.
More questions. Does this truck use the hydraulic system to operate the brakes? Or do the brakes have a separate master cylinder and brake fluid?
If the truck uses the hydraulic system for brake power, its possible that at idle RPM (on a truck this old) the oil pressure of the hydraulic pump may be just a bit down from ideal and that may be requiring a heavier foot to actuate the brakes.
I have seen trucks with the hydraulic system powered brakes that seem to have weak brakes, until you rev the engine a bit, which increases the oil output of the pump. But increasing the oil output by raising the RPM also makes the truck harder to stop unless you are (properly) using the inching pedal (left pedal) to stop.
If it has hydraulic system brakes and they seem weak/meek, I would also suspect a defective brake pressure accumulator.
On trucks having this type of powered brakes, the oil pressure accumulator is supposed to do 2 things. It is intended to be part of the redundancy requirement to have a "plan B" brake system if the engine or hydraulic system fails while the truck is operating so you can stop the truck. And it is also intended to help make up the deficit in oil pressure if you step on the brakes when hydraulic oil volume is low, as when other hydraulic functions are being used at the same time as brakes are applied.
  • Posted 20 Mar 2014 01:16
  • Modified 20 Mar 2014 01:18 by poster
  • Reply by L1ftmech
  • Tennessee, United States
Sorry, work three jobs so I didn't have time until now. To answer all the questions, we did buy the lift. Got an extra $1000 off! It is old, but seems to run like a champ. We did fix the tensioner spring which didn't break but wasn't on correctly. It doesn't drag as much now but does have a problem braking still. You really have to push the pedal and it will finally lock up the wheels. We think it may be the slave cylinder??? We don't use the lift much. We have a really small business that we only need it on occasion, but is better than renting one. I actually had posted on another thread and had an answer back the same day which helped me make my decision so I was a bit surprised when 5 months later people started responding. Thanks for the feedback and if you have any idea why my brakes still are having issues I would greatly appreciate it.
  • Posted 19 Mar 2014 22:07
  • Reply by taylor_m
  • Utah, United States
hmmm
good point L1ftmech
registered that day
made a post
hasn't returned since
....
i dunno, maybe he's the timid type? ;o)
  • Posted 19 Mar 2014 20:04
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
I think the questions ought to be:
Did you buy that forklift back in October of 2013?
And do you still visit this forum?
Click on taylor m profile.
One and only one visit to this forum and that was to post this thread.
Never came back to check responses.
  • Posted 19 Mar 2014 15:08
  • Modified 19 Mar 2014 15:12 by poster
  • Reply by L1ftmech
  • Tennessee, United States
truck is old, how tired is it? is your 'daily driver' (the car you rely on to get you to work) as old as this lift, and how long are you going to use the lift each week? agreed this is an easy brake job to work on, and your problem (this time, right now) is most likely related to the wheel brakes or the park brake cables/linkage, but this truck is no 'spring chicken', so to speak. this truck almost qualifies as "obsolete".
  • Posted 19 Mar 2014 09:20
  • Reply by edward_t
  • South Carolina, United States
"it's not rocket surgery"
like has been said a couple times
problem is inside the wheel drum area, probably a brake spring broken and wedging in the drum when in reverse.
Only way your going to know for sure whats going on is to pull the wheels and drums and look in there and see whats going on.

Worse case scenario is a full brake job with hardware replacement.
Not a hard job but can get expensive if drum is damaged and needs replacement.
  • Posted 19 Mar 2014 03:56
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
Sounds like a brake shoe return spring issue. Not a big deal to replace- the question is how long it has been dragging like this- worst case scenario is brake shoe has damaged the drum which has to be replaced- again not a big issue- JUST EXPENSIVE. Low ball your offer to counter your expected costs.
  • Posted 19 Mar 2014 01:17
  • Reply by bbforks
  • Pennsylvania, United States
bbforks (at) Hotmail (dot) com
Customers love technology- until they have to pay to fix it!
Sounds like the shoe maybe loose or just dust build up, no big deal either way. Couple of hours labour to sort it.
  • Posted 18 Mar 2014 18:24
  • Reply by eoin_o
  • Co Tipperary, Ireland

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