You're doing it right Steve, the tech's have all the details in their phone. Don't forget the added FREE GPS in Iphone..."find a friend" APP lets you know where each other is working.
I like to list most common issues and trouble codes to share with other techs. Something that took you days to find can be listed in notes for the next guy. Can save so much time.

For the last couple of years we have been providing our tech's (only have 2) with iphones. I believe it is a great way to be effective with your time, as long as you are not playing on it. For us- it also allows us as a small buisness to offer it as a perk. Free to use on the weekends, vacation, etc.
One of the advantages to our company is that we can share customer info in seconds. Every customer is listed as a contact and their forklifts are given unit numbers and listed under notes. The address and important contacts are listed. Copy/ paste the notes, then share the contact in a text, and now the mechanic's first call to a new customer has the info he needs. After a repair, he can note the hour meter reading and get the rest of the info for the paperwork from his phone while he is cooling down in his service van. Deck numbers. SS models, etc. get noted and shared between the three of us and the office. Another benefit is taking pictures during a disassembly and repair for reference. Pictures of worn fork heels can be sent to me and when I quote new I can also send a picture to the decision maker. I build data in NoteMaster of wheel brakes by model, engine pictures, etc. That way if my guy is pulling a water pump off a 1404 I can send him a pic of what he is up against.
One of the things I like best is the ability to "document" with pictures a scratched cylinder rod or strapping material wrapped around the pinion shaft seal we recently installed that started leaking again. Just a few if my thoughts on the benefits of a smart phone.

Thank you both for the clarification- that does make sense.

--what edwardt said---- :o)

since the DMCA was put into effect there has been more stringent efforts to protect copyrighted material, mostly in the US but i have seen it elsewhere too in some cases.
For those of you that are unfamiliar with acronyms
D.M.C.A. (Digital Millennium Copyright Act)

I am neither; "Copyright Specialists and Manufacturers who claim this protection", but have asked this question of both of them.
As I understand it {IANL} the answer is the "-copy-" part of the 'right to copy' (copyright), in this electronic age.
Almost without question, you would not get in trouble if you had properly purchased a hard copy of a manual, and then sold that hard copy via e-bay or your local flea market, since you were not _copying_ the manual. same as the Harry Potter book at your flea market. It is when we electronically 'copy" a *.pdf or other electronic format file, without the specific permission of whomever owns the original information, that we break "copyright".

Thank you bbforks. That is a good question. We are not the experts in this area, so can we have some comments please from Copyright Specialists and Manufacturers who claim this protection.

Admin- I have a question- what is the difference between a technical service manual & -say- the book 'Harry Potter'? Both have been copyrighted- I'm not trying to be a smart a**- I'm just really curious if there is a difference. I go to a local flea market & there's always used books for sale there so that's what makes me ask the question.

sorry about dragging that topic off like i did , sometimes i get carried away on some subjects. :o)

Thank you Swoop,
Forklift manuals are almost all considered "proprietary information". The only proper place to get them is from your local dealer who is the legal representative of the manufacturer. We all need to respect the intellectual property rights of the copyright holders.

Our Forum Readers can answer specific questions about particular concerns, and even quote small sections of the manuals (it's called "fair use" to intelligently discuss the particular concern), but cannot be seen as trying to get around the rights of the copyright holders (usually the manufacturer).
So if you have a particular problem we are sure there are folks on the Forums here who can give you very well considered opinions about those concerns.

Best wishes
From
Forum Admin

Whats to stop them from giving out proprietary information?
Well... nothing really, anyone that has it can pass it on if they are willing to take that chance.
The only deterrent in place at the moment is the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act), or in software they do have methods in place to bind the programs to the computer they are installed on which makes the software virtually bound to the device and it cannot be transferred to any other by any conventional means.

In any case though If the owners of the information wished to do so they could make someones life VERY miserable and financially difficult if they wished to do so if they felt these terms were being violated enough to warrant such an action. The deterrent in place would make anyone think twice IF they really took it seriously.

Even on this forum we walk a thin line by sharing what we know when it comes to diagnosing problems and sharing our knowledge gained from our training on how to repair a lift. But i believe the one thing that would put anyone over the line would be the blatant disregard for this law and passing the material such as manuals around like they were nothing more than free information when in fact the opposite is true in this case. On every site i use to get my information from there is always a warning informing the users of the site about the information obtained from there stating this fact.
If the manufacturers or dealerships decided they were loosing business or financial gain in a substantial enough manner from these actions they could by rights prosecute anyone violating these principles. These laws seem to be more prevalent in the United States but i have seen some cases where it reached out further beyond those boundaries.

A similar example of this is in the satellite industry with all the signal hacking that was going on years ago and thousands of end users hacking the systems to gain access to their proprietary property in order to gain free "paid programming". This information was obtained illegally and passed around so much these mainstream companies were loosing so much money they had to do something about it. The usual deterrents were put in place but were circumvented so quickly the only recourse for the satellite companies was to go after the hackers and the end users in the end, that pretty much put a stop to it. They gained enough time to design a system that implemented a new set of security rules that made it quite a bit more difficult to circumvent and that combined with putting the fear of financial ruin and jail time into the picture nobody wants to attempt it on any large scale or much less make it public.

Now i know in the lift truck industry it is not as wide spread as the above example and any amount of money that may be lost here is miniscule compared to that example but its the same principle that applies in any case.

From one tech to another though, we all need help from time to time because of the growing technology in this industry and sharing information is what gets us to our end goals , "making sure the customers needs are met" but there are proper ways of obtaining these goals and we all should follow them imo. I myself will help anyone that asks for it, and send them down the right path so they can obtain their goal of repairing their machine but i do have my limitations on how far i will go with that.

I could make a novel about my thoughts on all of this but I've already said enough and i'll leave it at this for now.

In the auto world the reason the tech leases the electronics to make THEM responsible for the upkeep/maintenance of said equipment. How many times have you serviced a lift due to it's being abused by it's operator who simply doesn't care. Maybe you haven't but I Know I have- and plenty of times at that!

As far as the tech giving away proprietary info- what's to stop them from doing that now? I'm quite sure there are safeguards that take care of downloading info off their company owned laptops- the same holds true for the leased/purchased equipment. The tech may purchase the laptop but the software/programs are company owned.

As RayTech says- it won't be long before the internet changes the forklift world as it has everything else.

Automotive repair help and parts is way more accessible than lift trucks. First of all, you have a smorgasbord of available parts to choose in automotive. With Lift trucks, just OEM or maybe one aftermarket supplier with crappy service. Lift truck parts suppliers have little competition. Info...you get a million hits when asking an auto question about codes,repairs. You get You-Tube videos on how to change anything...but Lift trucks...maybe this forum and not much else after that. Service manuals.....automotive ahead by a mile....any car, any make....go to ALLDATA or other sources and get factory manuals for $20! The real deal, with recalls and actual factory bulletins. Try getting any lift truck manual, especially Toyota....zero...nyet..nada. You cant even buy them at any price with some lift truck companies. Scan tools....biggest difference of all.....Auto has one tool fits all....Lift trucks...good luck buddy! Pay the OEM guy $900 for a diagnostic on a $3000 truck. If it wasn't for this forum, there might be no help at all for a lift truck tech at all..!!!
Automotive Techs and garage owners are getting more customers arriving with their own parts in hand, bought online at way less than they can buy a jobber prices. These customers have already diagnosed the problem via the internet and need only installation of the part in hand. The shop loses Diagnostic time and any commission on parts sales due to the help and availability provided online.
Lift truck support and parts supply is no where near automotive. That's why we still enjoy higher salaries and more supplied tools, free diagnostic equipment and Vans to drive. It wont be long boys, (and the rare girl) that the internet catches up to the Lift truck world. Then, we will be buying our own scan tools, laptops and service Vans

Well said Swoop & Ed T- the cost of technology is staggering. If our industry follows the auto industry lead- which often times it does- then the cost of the technology needed to service the equipment will be a requirement of the tech to purchase.

I service some local auto dealerships & their techs have to lease purchase laptops from their employers & the service/maintenance of the laptop is at the cost of the tech. Employer then buys the laptop back at the end of the tech's employment once the equipment is checked & shown to be in good working order.

Of course in their situation the laptops stay at work (in the shop) & auto technology is able to be bought because of the "right to work" legislation so the rules are different but- in the end- unless the employer is willing to lock down all technology (how- I don't know)- with all it's associated costs-proprietary info is in the hands of the workforce. IMHO it's only a matter of time when protecting this info becomes to costly. Somehow we all got along & had our own client base back before electronics came around & there was no "proprietary" info to guard.

i think its all what the company is willing to bear as far as cost/overhead v/s revenue intake. If they can benefit from it then they will supply devices that will help their employees do their jobs more efficiently.
Like edward said, some companies in our area provide laptops and phones, and even internet services, while others have programs in place to provide the devices but pass the cost on to the tech or personnel needing them including the billable time spent on the job using these devices to perform their job and/or interact with customers.

In this day and age and with the rise of electronic devices growing in leaps and bounds everyday it is almost a must to have this if you want to do your job well and be able to communicate efficiently with your employer and customer.

I saw this coming years ago and made it one of my hobbies (like edwardt) to become as proficient in computing as i possibly could just to stay on top of things. But the point made about the ever changing world of computing and the cost of keeping up with it is true, it is a very costly venture and todays 'favorite' device or application doesn't stay in the light very long before something else comes along that replaces it. So.... the big question is who is willing to 'foot the bill' for it? The cost could become astronomical with this ever changing electronic world. Personally i think having basic communication and the ability to utilize laptop and internet capability is all we need, anything else above that is just eyecandy and alot of overhead that will fall to the wayside before we know it. Handheld PDA's and 'onsite billing' has been in our company's eye for a few years now but they have not integrated that into our operations yet, and i feel by the time they 'get around' to doing it the technology will be obsolete or will have changed so much their original cost analysis not to mention the ability to integrate it into our system currently in place will have changed so much it will not be as attractive as they once thought it was.
Yes the cost of having an IT dept is expensive and the cost of the hardware and keeping it up as well.

I could go on and on about this and even though we have the tech provided to us there are sooooo many other things that fall to the wayside that almost make it a redundant gesture until the technology stabilizes to a point it would be useful in a long term venue, but it would take this thread way out of it's original intent so I'll shut up now about it heheh :o)

I would offer to Andrew that security does not have any 'magic key' and the only real security is continual vigilance and education. In other words; 'it's not your car key that keeps your car from being stolen by someone with a tow truck'.
I would also note that most forklift related companies do not have anywhere near the need for security that a bank does, and all the banks I know of allow access via personally owned phones and computers.
Since, in the USA and most of the "free" world, security professionals are not permitted to openly discuss failures and shortcomings in products that have "closed source" [trade secret] protections, there is almost always some less than perfect 'back door' (?NSA access?) that can be exploited by those wishing to use the back door, in those types of products. You can do a search for "MSwindows {closed source} -vs- Linux {open source} security" to get a better idea of what I am talking about, if anyone cares.
IMNSHO, Proper employee education and motivation is far more valuable in security, than who owns the devices. It's just no where near as easy to do correctly.
I agree completely with Andrew's bottom line of; "Better to have company equipment standardized and monitored", for a whole lot of reasons.

There are issues with this in the USA.
First a business does not want any unauthorized access from outside phones laptops. It's a recipe for disaster with virus's and potential access to sensitive information.
All communications from and to the company you want to monitor for reasons like what are people actually using the devices for and how do they deal with customers.
Big important part here is **** viewing and child ****. You can't have a hostile work place to other people. i.e. a male watching **** and upsetting female employees. Child **** or similar has to be watched for as it is a business allowing employees to do this. Imaging the negative publicity for the firm if they caught the person. Better to have company equipment standardized and monitored.

It is almost "trivial" (for someone with good HTML5 coding skills) to create a interoffice intranet/'virtual private network' (as opposed to the internet) where all information stayed on the server and was displayed but not downloaded, and that even provided access to diagnostic programs, with some configuration of the local devices (and with some 'latency', due to -not- universal high speed wireless access, no one wants to wait for anything).
I kind of get the feeling that what is preventing this is more what Raytech points out; "profit margins", {and who gets the profit from doing the work,} than the technology. I think there are still a lot of dealer principals who are having 'sticker shock' at the cost of having an IT department and all the laptops and phones they purchased in the last 15 years [even if most of it went for the sales department], and would not want to consider any added expense that was not easily passed on to a customer.
Europe, Asia, South America and Africa will be better equipped to adopt that tech (than North America, not sure about "downunder's" mobile phone access), as their mobile phone access systems are actually competitive and offer better access speed and not quite as monopolistic as the systems in North America.

In this local market, I know the Yale dealer makes/helps the tech purchase their own laptop, and installs the proprietary software for them. The Hyster dealer provides a company laptop, and has published rules that allow no personal use of that laptop, and controls access when on corporate networks to only "trusted sources". Last I knew, the Cat/Mitsu dealer was very flexible and had mixed BYOD and company provided devices both for phones and laptops. The company I work for is trying to get everyone to use their own 'smart phone' and they pay only for the 'cloud access' to programs that the company uses. I feel this is very much a 2 edge sword, as the customer may get used to calling the tech, and the tech may take that customer with them. just as they will take their phone, when they leave the company.

I kind of think these things are changing so quickly that whatever is the standard today, will be like beepers. (obsolete and only a memory in 20 years or less).
A lot of these changes have been waiting for more ubiquitous adoption of the IPV6 name/number system than any other bottleneck, and that is starting to 'come on strong' these days.
My apologies if I come on a little more nerdy than usual, both industrial trucks and computer tech are my personal passions/interests.

I think it may evolve to to that. Market share is dropping, competition is fierce and bottom line is may dictate employers to go that way. I can see us losing most of our perks soon as our door rates are lower now than years back. Many tech's destroy their company laptops or Ipads from carelessness. It will be replaced at no-charge to them. Most techs are abusing cell phone data by watching You-Tube or streaming videos. We have a company APP within our phones that shows our employer every key stroke we make, but tech's still abuse it. The company does track our every move with their supplied phones, and has software in laptops and I-Pads that "tells" them if we share info.
It's that proprietary info that would be an issue with personal laptops. the company would have no control of that info and could lose sensitive data on customers. There would be no controls in place, no security. Our company I-pads are linked directly to their server. If you try to access internet, it goes on wi-fi only and wont let you do any company business.
There is no single scan tool to use on lifts, like OBD2 on all cars, so it can get pricy for a tech with no access to most trucks