There real cost of fuel cell are the hydrogen filling stations set up. There is a new type of fuel cell this wil be in the market within this year that you don't need hydrogen for. The fueling system is very easy to install and has no need for high pressure system and can be stored in regular plastic tanks. This could be gravity fed or by a electric pump. The only by product of this fuel cell is water. The cost of these trucks will be comparable with trucks in today's market for either diesel electric or LPG.


These trucks will be 100% Zero emission and have the same range as a diesel truck and the same refueling time

Non hydrogen Fuel Cells are already in the market. Nothing new there.
All fuel cell types in material handing equipment have one big hurdle and that is economy of scale. There are large fleets in the US running on fuel cells because the capital and site investment costs are positively negated by the reduced running costs and ability to utilize the equipment 24/7.
It's doubtful at current costs that fuel cells have the ability to penetrate the European market.

The alternate to hydrogen is methanol, easily stored ( no high pressure required) comparable cost to unit of electricity, readily available, easily dispensed visa automatic fuel pump like units.
However, it all comes back to economy of scale. Also there is the added maintenance cost of the fuel cell

The hydrogen market in the UK is not very good this again could be said for Europe as well.So it will be either Diesel Electric or LPG.

What BYD will have to show is that they can compete with Fuel cell trucks when they arrive,how do the BYD trucks perform when the battery is Half used do they keep there performance or do the lose it like lead acid batteries

I think the fact that this post has gained the the response that it has shows that BYD are not being ignored by the trade, if anything bring closely watched as the confidence in the battery is huge (nobody offers 10K hours or 8 years without knowing its bomb proof).

However, most of the larger companies don't build the rest of the truck to last over 5 years as the trucks only do a 5 year contract and then get either scrapped or moved on to second hand dealers.

So my comment was more based on how the rest of the truck (motors, wiring, chassis, axle) will last after 5 years of abuse.

Especially as the target user is the one that's interested in "no maintenance"

I can't comment on hydrogen fuel cells as the UK market does not seem to have a place for them (in my experience anyway)

The market has been fairly stagnant when it comes to new ideas for the past few years. It would be great if BYD can come and shake things up!

Whatever you might hear regarding 'the big boys', I can assure you that whilst they may have similar product to BYD, the price they demand will be significantly more that you will pay from us.

They ALL buy their B's + C's from third parties, they ALL make their own margin and they ALL are selling products with shorter warranties (5 years vs. 8 years)

BYD are making good in roads into the UK market, we now have 100+ units either in service or on the way and most of these are from orders of 1, 2 or 3 machines. The big plus in this case is that we are receiving orders from multiple customers allowing our dealers to develop the proposition steadily and more importantly, profitably.

I still find it slightly amusing that the industry continues to underestimate us.

We look forward to surprising more competitors and customers in the coming months with new product launches and hopefully more success at IFOY...

But please, feel free to keep ignoring us, we really don't mind!!

Battery Technology is now moving faster than ever quite simply there will be battery trucks in the market before the end of 2018 that will run on a new fuel. They will be an all electric truck run on fuel cell but not hydrogen that will be able to have the same range as an equivalent Diesel or LPG truck but be 100% electric.


This new technology is now being proven in other areas such as automotive. It will carry the same benefits of Hydrogen as they wont lose power like the standard batter trucks and will be able to be refueled in under 5 min. But unlike hydrogen they wont need Hi pressure fueling systems

With all the "big boys" in the MHE world investing so heavily in Li-Ion power in already proven trucks, I think BYD's selling point of its battery will only last so long.

When the Jungheinrich, Crown, Linde etc has the same battery (or equivalent), how will the BYD stand out then?

Great to see a newcomer to the market, but only having one selling point may make its success short lived.

My company Navitas Systems has introduced a full line of UL-Recognized lithium forklift batteries called Starlifter--spanning Classes 1 through 3 and voltages of 24, 36, and 48 Volts. Check out the data sheets and product videos at lithiumforkliftpower dot com.

We are a BYD dealer in Houston TX, we have demo the BYD's with great success the battery has proven it's self over and over. We are very excited about the future opportunities with the product.

You should contact my colleague Brian Rippie who can guide you regarding clients successfully using BYD forklifts with LiFePo4. His number is +1 (213) 399-7570

Regards

Gary Winter BYD UK

BYD seem to have hit something right with this truck

Like many of you, when I first learned of BYD I also thought it was too good to be true but eight months later I have become a believer. Due to BYD's Iron Phosphate (Fe) battery technology they are able to deliver features no one else in the MHE industry can even come close to such as: No battery watering (ever!), No battery swapping, Increased run time (outperforms any lead acid battery), ability to opportunity / fast charge with no harmful effect on the battery life, Full charge in 90 minutes or less, No equalization charging (ever!), No heat from the battery, the safest battery in the MHE industry, and by far the best feature - 10 years / 20,000 hour FULL battery replacement warranty!!
The BYD forklift itself is also very impressive as it is engineered and built very solid along with having a handful of standard features that many other manufactures either don't offer or charge a ridiculous amount of money to add to their forklifts.
I completely believe the BYD forklift is about to quickly become an industry disruptor here in the US market.

So your stuck with one vendor for the battery. By the way thank you for the feedback on the fuel cells. I agree with Arminus, not a permanent replacement for the lead acid batteries. Almost sounds like another Solendra

Arminius-

Thank you for the clarification.
Then my next question would be what is their after sales support like?
I think a lot of people are going to compare them to other OEM's that are not produced here or have a very small distribution here. As we have seen with some OEM's the truck sales come first with very little thought put into service and parts support.

Partsguy-

That is correct, you can only get them for their trucks, at least as far as I'm aware.

There are assemblers out there for the aftermarket as direct replacements for Lead Acid, but because the trucks were originally intended for Lead Acid, you may find some performance limitations with Lithium. It appears BYD has optimized their trucks for the Lithium battery perfomance.

My question would be are their batteries only available for use in their trucks? It appears that is the only way that you can get them.
If that is the case I can see where you will get push back as most companies want to use a brand that they are already familiar with and the OEM servicing dealer has a good track record.

triumphrider-

Hello from Ft. Worth (by way of California). I have some indirect knowledge of fuel cells, costs, care and maintenance...I can share what I know. There seem to be big pros/cons. Maintenance can tend to be high. I believe the major FC players bury the costs in 'warranty'. I've had conversations with two major retailers (one in TX) that have demo'ed fuel cells...and did not follow through with implementation due to high capital and maintenance costs. There are also many end-users that have implemented them (Ace Hardware in Wilmer, TX for example). We have a mixed bag here, and I see the public companies embracing the FC's and the privately held companies holding off. There is a pending Tax Credit for FC purchases...I am certain the 30% credit goes a long way towards the feasibility (fuel cells can be 3x the cost of Lead Acid).

No one can argue that FC's are by far more convenient, never requiring a battery 'change' and you can recharge a FC in a couple minutes and return to work. Big advantages.

What I do hear, and have heard for the last 25 years is the desire for a better battery, which is why I originally created this topic, to explore the BYD Lithium battery. Now almost a year after I started this thread, I can tell you the interest is there and it is palpable, and lithium by all accounts is progressing in the MHE market.

At the end of the day, you have many steps involved in creating, transporting and converting H2 into a usable energy source...Like any of us who have tinkered around with machines, the more parts, the more opportunity for failures...I don't see H2 as the permanent solution, more of a transitional power source.

Hope this helped.

Companies like lifter 01 has described will stick to kit they know will do the job,interesting to hear they change the battery to get the full life out of the chassis ballast eat.

Must lower full life time cost and be much more efficient to do this.


With around 4500 trucks in the UK it's quite a large fleet so efficiency and down time is everything to them

Anybody have any feedback on the hydrogen fuel cells. How do they hold up , cost of operation?

Triumphrider it amazes me how many people think a battery looks after its self. As for the if it works don't fix it spot on we have a service regime that our techs have to stick too we do all our own repairs (we do have all the laptops etc) but the dealers only get involved when it's warranty work. Even running 24 hour shifts we get at least 10 years out of our kit before it gets replaced some like our Yale C/B trucks far longer as they just don't breakdown we are putting new batteries in them all now which will extend there lives by at least another 7 years. With 500 trucks on site it would cost the company a fortune if we didn't maintain them properly especially as we have another 9 sites around the uk with the same amount of kit in them. Look after your kit properly and it pays dividends