Millreef pointed out that price is king, this can't be the case if it was just down to price then every body will just go for the cheaper Chinese made trucks. The top four companies in the world Toyota Linde (Kion) Ect are not the cheapest trucks but yet they still sell quite a bit of equipment most of Linde sales come from Europe. Service play's the most important part of all this and if Briggs can think that they can just put out cheap trucks using financial tricks to make them look good value then in five years time they are going to make huge looses with no service engineers

Well said close call, I could not agree more. Time for the Yanks to put their house in order now before it is too late.

Well said closecall, and how much more will be wasted with the company running it's own ballot to the engineers to see who is interested, save the costs guys and dont bother because none of us are. Does the law not even bother them in relation to having a recognition agreement with the union, they are just fuelling the fires of their own demise, and as for values a subway mugger has more.

What is happening at Briggs, a company of values it preaches.....Take a look at the 2010 accounts and it shows one director earning 55% more than the previous year £300K+!!! yet the staff get nothing but reduced terms and the blame for everything that goes wrong.....Peel Ports, Fraiken and remember the Thunderbirds and VMLE....Oh don't forget the training and that cost over £500k......then the other spongers "consultants" that pretended to be mates with the MD and got paid a fortune. UPDATE....Another one just about to get a chunk of money.........The market is picking up and the good people, plenty of them in Briggs, will have lots of offers to go and work for someone who appreciates them....Got to show those Americans you cannot treat people like this because the BOD certainly aren't strong enough but are happy taking their big bonuses and stripping the T&C's of everyone else.

Service undoubtedly matters in a rental business but price is king, especially in difficult economic times. How often do your best customers give you the business because your price is 10% higher than everyone else?

I would suggest in todays 'dog eat dog' rental market, never.

The customer assumes that as he has a rental contract he will get the service as specified in the contract, especially if he is choosing between the four big players Linde, Briggs, Barlow and Toyota.

More often than not he will give you the business again if you match the lowest price.

Service is assumed as a given in a rental market but price is always the deciding factor.

what you after look at who has been the biggest loser in the Yale Briggs tie up Cat. Yale might have offered Briggs some equipment at a lower price to get the name out in the market. Yale is not that well known in the market in the UK hyster is the bigger brand in the UK so to help Briggs Yale could have have given better discounts on trucks. As millreef pointed out it might not be a bad time for Impact Cat are the biggest loser at the moment in the Yale and Briggs tie up so investing in experienced engineers might not be a bad investment for the long term of the company , Another point is that if engineers do look to leave the industry to go to better paid and better conditions in other industries then in ten to fifteen years there will be a problem. Younger people might want to look at industries such as computer engineering that has better pay and conditions so why would they want to come to a industry where pay and conditions are not that good. The other point is there to much competition in the market this could be true in certain areas such as light counter balance trucks but the specialized warehouse equipment and larger trucks seem to be ok.Their are a number of examples of companies doing OK in these market Barlow and Cooper are doing well. Many people might say will this change with other companies entering the Market Most Chinese now go up to 25 ton and Hyundai have just gone up to 25 ton but this market is more a bout service than price

Employees working for a good company that actually cares and values its employees, not just says it does, will not have to resort to trades unions to be heard. Unfortunately many can not see that there is a fine line between hard but fair management and bullying. Its easy to push people rond when you can hide upstairs with your executive mates. But why is this going on....several contributors have said its make or break time for Briggs. The UK lift truck business is on its uppers, fact with too many players. This just means if you want to grow you have to do stupid deals and hope you make cash at the back end if the market picks up. Some gamble especially if you have been rebranding, investing and reorganising continuously. So If the squeeze is on from across the pond as suspected, simple maths tells you that will make the biggest saving quickly by taking a bit, (a lot to the individual, but small in terms of what is wanted), off a lot of people, i.e. the largest single group - engineers. If a few get fed up and leave, that saves on staff costs, enables you to employ cheaper and if the need arises to reduce numbers save on redundancy. Of course where the theory all goes wrong is if your engineers do leave in numbers or rebel. That just means you loose customers by bad service. Fact of life is that there are not many lift truck jobs about at the moment, but lift truck engineers have transferable skills so should look at other industries with common components for employment opportunities. If your skills are not valued where you are, the best punishment for the management is to take them somewhere else. Industrial action is morally justified and will punish but will probably only result in a few concessionary scraps being thrown down. Sorry to say it, but I dont see this ending quickly or happily, certainly for the lifeblood of the company - the engineers.

As an ex employee my opinion is poor trade union representation has always been a problem at Finning/Briggs. Briggs have employed a new HR Director who seems to have done a great job for the company by bulldozing the unions and employees over the past few years leading to reduced T & C's ,pensions, redundancy and benefits all round except of course for the executive team who made the apointment. Time for the union to man up and represent their members for once. Loose this one and the Americans will think they can get away with anything in the UK.

Good time though to be Impact or a Cat dealer with the opportunities this dispute will throw up.

Perhaps they will be looking to employ more engineers!!

I think it is make or brake time for Briggs , play this the wrong way and they could be finished. wants you damage your reputation then its damaged and it could take a long time to repair. I remember a jeweler in the Uk called Gerard Ratner he controlled the UK's largets Jeweler he made a joke comment and within three month he had no business. Briggs management must remember that all employees are important and need to be treated fairly some of the point's that have been made are simply petty and could easily be fixed by just good management and commonsense. Briggs must remember that want's they start to treat their service engineers like disposable objects then there will be plenty of competitors lining up to take there business away. Some times the smallest things matter the most if Briggs management arn't sure then they just need to ask Mr Ratner

Its true then !

Your right davelift ! This could be make or break time for briggs !

Briggs seem to like to talk of there service back up to customers but by the looks of thing not every body is happy. it has been said before the service side of a company can make or brake the company ,all it needs is for the service engineer to take a little longer to get to a job , a little longer to fix the job , not to use there know how to make the job that little bit quicker, not be as friendly or explain to the customer its not them but they have to look after their lively hood and the company would be in big trouble. Briggs are like any other large company the management need to increase profits and drive down cost but the problem is how do you do it.It's not a good idea to do by **** your most important employees

Briggs have been chipping away at our terms and conditions for too long now also added with no pay increase it really has become a place no hard working engineer wants to be!
I am a long serving engineer and used to be " passionate " about this company but no longer as Briggs directors have managed to kill all the good moral within the engineer force by basically insulting our intelligence and saying they are offering us a pay rise.

Anyone got a job!!!!!!!!!!
Needless to say its time to move on, the only problem is every other Briggs engineer is going to do the same.

We have had a constant erosion of our T&C's over the last two years or so, sick pay reduced, redundancy reduced, private van usage taken away unless we pay, yes the world is changing but it shouldn't be going in reverse, it's time to stand together and stop losing what was negotiated over the years, if we hadn't been in a union we would have lost our travel time long ago. As engineers we want the company to prosper but not by taking back what is ours, management need to do what they are paid to do and that should be to lead us forward not mug us of our wages.

I am with you on this one coal miner.

Good on the engineers from Briggs , its about time the engineers stood up to management,more engineers in other companies should do the same, during the past couple of years everything possible has been cut from the engineers , yet the sales and management still clown around in their BMW's taking big salaries for nowt, while the people that actually earn for the company have been treated like sh..t, there will be a future shortage of experienced engineers due to this, short sighted management

When the uk board accept six figure bonuses while " the workers" get nothing it was only a matter of time before there was unrest. This looks like a re-run of the Finning/Harvey engineers T & C's harmonisation fiasco.