Discussion:
active system against lateral overturning

Hello,

I know that Toyota uses SAS system.

But, do you know if another active systems (for example brake and steering action) exist for prevent forklift overturning?

Thank you for your answers.

Regards
  • Posted 26 Oct 2010 00:57
  • Discussion started by jacky
  • Meurthe et Moselle, France
Showing items 1 - 15 of 22 results.
Ahmen, Cap'n. There is no replacement for good training and management.
  • Posted 12 Nov 2010 02:39
  • Reply by jim3
  • Massachusetts, United States
Jim Fox
There is no question about safety being #1 consideration when operating machinery. Both of the operator and the pedestrian.
The most important component in the safe use of a forklift is the operator.
I have a problem with safety a system that takes the decision making process away from the driver.
There is no substitute for a properly trained and experienced operator.
Call me old fashioned....
  • Posted 12 Nov 2010 01:46
  • Reply by PPPA
  • United Kingdom
sorry guys Huster....is suppose to be Hyster..........
  • Posted 12 Nov 2010 00:19
  • Reply by TC17
  • Wisconsin, United States
Bottom Line guys.........there is NO device that is going to prevent all lateral roll-overs. It comes down to lift truck operators that receive the proper training, knowledge and experience and that are willing to take safety to the next level. It does not matter if you are a Toyota guy, a Huster guy, a Cat guy....what matters is...........Safety is JOB #1.

Be safe out there.........
  • Posted 12 Nov 2010 00:17
  • Reply by TC17
  • Wisconsin, United States
All the systems in the world, even with redundant safety systems, will fail when a human is in control. Forklifts last on average 8 years, operate many hours a day, in harsh environments and abusive use. Then add on the variance of maintenance quality and there will be failures. In the end it comes down to the judgement of the driver. THere is only one true safe product and that is a robot, in a closed room with no people around.

These systems are a good attempt at making things safer. Accelrometers and other electronics though will fail when bounced enough, not kept in calibration, or just plain fail. How long does your laptop last? Calibration and testing of them is a requirement.

Don't forget users will bypass them - they aren't stupid - somehow - when they think they "get in the way" or "slow" them down.

How many "dead man" swothes have you seen bypassed?
  • Posted 11 Nov 2010 22:51
  • Reply by jim3
  • Massachusetts, United States
Jim Fox
All the systems in the world, even with redundant safety systems, will fail when a human is in control. Forklifts last on average 8 years, operate many hours a day, in harsh environments and abusive use. Then add on the variance of maintenance quality and there will be failures. In the end it comes down to the judgement of the driver. THere is only one true safe product and that is a robot, in a closed room with no people around.

These systems are a good attempt at making things safer. Accelrometers and other electronics though will fail when bounced enough, not kept in calibration, or just plain fail. How long does your laptop last? Calibration and testing of them is a requirement.

Don't forget users will bypass them - they aren't stupid - somehow - when they think they "get in the way" or "slow" them down.

How many "dead man" swothes have you seen bypassed?
  • Posted 11 Nov 2010 22:51
  • Reply by jim3
  • Massachusetts, United States
Jim Fox
There is one other player in the top 5 that has a system to reduce the potential of truck overturning.
There was no fanfare when it was introduced for reasons made obvious since the SAS was introduced.
  • Posted 11 Nov 2010 19:34
  • Reply by PPPA
  • United Kingdom
the "patent" comment was meant to be sarcastic. i just get a little out of sorts when people who are not familiar with a product or system but have heard someone else's negative "sales propaganda" and comment as if they have intimate knowledge. i have not seen any actual negative commenting here that wasn't accompanied by the introduction of another product or sounded like a competitors talking points. yes i am a Toyota guy, yes i like the product i represent but if there were no benefits from the SAS system there would not be so many Toyotas out there. spit out the sour grapes and move on.
  • Posted 11 Nov 2010 14:36
  • Reply by toyzilla
  • Texas, United States
easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.
toyzilla,
in the mid 1970's, Allis Chalmers & Yale both developed somewhat of similar system for Ford Motor Co - it was called and inch lb over load device. Basically, this device measured the deflect of an extension of one of the tilt cylinder pins. The devise would prevent the operator from lifting a load above the rated capacity, prevent a rated capacity load from being tilted forward. It was fitted to both electric & ICE forklifts. It had issues but did what it was supposed to. But the biggest issue was the UAW drivers that didn't like it - hard to fix that. Fully realize that
The biggest issue any manufactuer faces when one makes a safety related systems standardd and then later tries to remove it for cost considerations - like to be competitive in a satur- lawyers have fun with those situations - like trying to remain cost competitive in a saturated & in my opionion stagnate growth market like fork lifts that has an abundance of competitors & more coming into it..
So it is simple, they don't elect to do it.
Also part of the SAS system is the fork leveling system - seems that feature is commonly available thru Cascade - no Toyota patented or proprietary feature there - what happened???
  • Posted 11 Nov 2010 03:30
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States
"Have An Exceptional Day!"
no lost lit's directly related to SAS. it's a system to make you "safer" not "SAFE". nothing is idiot proof and the service interval is the PM interval. no one else has it because they havn't figured out a way to do it without infringing on the patent rights. why is every one so down on a system that "improves" not "guarantees" the operators safety level. i think it's sour grapes and wallet envy.
  • Posted 11 Nov 2010 02:35
  • Reply by toyzilla
  • Texas, United States
easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.
No one else makes this system becasue it's not fail proof. Ask you guy how many litigations they lost becasue of SAS. If it were that good, everyone would have it. Also, there is a mandatory inspection to be performed at your cost every, I think, 150 hours. Also, it's very exspensive to replace and repair. That system is about $3,200 USD plus labor. Bottom line, there is no substitute for common sense. Spend the extra money and hire a responsible driver, that money is a far better investment than that system. Don't be sold, be educated.
  • Posted 10 Nov 2010 23:37
  • Reply by JackWagon
  • Kentucky, United States
I was a Toyota guy and think the SAS system is a good idea. The steer axle lock cylinder is the weak part in the system and should be checked during PMs. I also wish it had a faster reaction time on the seven series.
  • Posted 7 Nov 2010 00:04
  • Reply by Willis
  • Georgia, United States
yotaguy, come on man. i am a toyota guy too and have a lot of years with them. EVERYTHING breaks at some point. not a lot of common failures but not impervious to defects. lighten up dude!!! being proud of your product you represent is great but "talking out the butt" is that something that requires practice??
  • Posted 6 Nov 2010 07:44
  • Reply by toyzilla
  • Texas, United States
easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.
Yotaguy - I guess Toyota just shipped your dealer & customers all the good ones because your closer to the plant in Indiana. But in Georgia I found customers & prospects that had issues with the SAS system - steering lock up after a turn was completed for one. Maybe the just take the beating of the longer over the road drive to Georgia.
  • Posted 6 Nov 2010 02:50
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States
"Have An Exceptional Day!"
I was a Toyota technician for 5 years before going into sales and NEVER, NEVER, NEVER had a problem with SAS unless the customer damaged they system. The warranty rate is non-existent on this system and it just works. Anyone who says otherwise is talking out their butt...
  • Posted 6 Nov 2010 01:35
  • Reply by Yotaguy
  • Kentucky, United States

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