Caterpillar P5000:
No start

Working on a p5000. Will not start. Injector not getting signal. Fuel from vaporizer to injector. 12 volts at injector harness. Plug injector in, 0 volts. Does anyone know what gives the injector is pulse signal? No codes... I'm thinking a position sensor or bad ECM. Please help! Running out of ideas
  • Posted 7 Sep 2020 04:01
  • Discussion started by Tractorhead9542
  • Wisconsin, United States
Showing items 1 - 15 of 17 results.
Hey there. Sent a message to your email. Hope you received it or at least check your spam. If not, continue on the Forum and please get back to me. Your knowledge is impressive and I have further insight
  • Posted 16 Sep 2020 12:52
  • Reply by Tractorhead9542
  • Wisconsin, United States
sorry about the forum restrictions, they do have filters in place to filter out emails and website urls and stuff inside the posting area.
just send me an email and i'll have yours then ??
  • Posted 14 Sep 2020 00:45
  • Modified 14 Sep 2020 00:45 by poster
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
Good morning. I thank you very much for your assistance here. This machine is owned by the local hardware store they close at 2 today. I will stop over there before they close this afternoon. Yes, I see the ECM on the left side frame but I did not see a driver module. I will stop to double-check maybe snap a picture or two and send them to you in an email. Mine is [email address removed] or [email address removed]
  • Posted 14 Sep 2020 00:40
  • Reply by Tractorhead9542
  • Wisconsin, United States
ok thanks, that got me to the right information
your truck has the ecm mounted on the left hand side of the frame below the battery. There is also a smaller module mounted beside the ecm, this is the Driver, injector module. It is showing it separate from the ecm in the parts diagram. Part number: 91A2001100.
Don't confuse the logic VCM unit inside the RH foot step panel for the ecm, that is not it, that logic controller just acts like the interlink for all the other components on the machine and is where you can hook up Diagnozer (the pc diagnostic tool), in later models the installed a harness for diagnostic hookup that puts the plug underneath the cupholder instead of having to remove the footstep covers etc. Your looking for the ECM so you can locate the LP driver module mounted beside it.
I checked the service grams and there is one out for this injector problem.
What bugs me is there is no code on the display, by all rights if there is actually a problem in the injector it should be showing a code E-35.
If you have an email i can send you this service gram that has the information that will help you troubleshoot this issue.
if you want just drop me an email, mine is in my signature area and my profile.
  • Posted 14 Sep 2020 00:18
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
Sorry. AT3511000. The whole number is there. I just passed over the "AT".
  • Posted 13 Sep 2020 22:48
  • Reply by Tractorhead9542
  • Wisconsin, United States
thats not the whole serial number
it will begin with letters like AT example: AT81F-xxxxxx
the prefixes began like AT81F or AT90, AT83F, AT34, AT35, AT36, AT13F
If the dataplate is unreadable then look on RH side along where the hood runs on the frame, it might be stamped there or check the right front fender.
usually there are a couple locations for the dataplate, on top of the dash or on the front of the firewall on the front of the truck or possibly the kick panel behind your feet.
  • Posted 13 Sep 2020 13:15
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
S/N 3511000
  • Posted 13 Sep 2020 10:24
  • Reply by Tractorhead9542
  • Wisconsin, United States
the crank and cam sensors do play a part with the fuel delivery but not directly.
the ECM monitors those signals along with the TPS and TB position, map sensor and O2 sensor, basically monitoring the air/fuel mixture and send signals to an LPG drive unit module which controls the LPG injector telling it how much or less fuel the engine needs.
Early models had an external LPG driver module and later on during the late tier2 or early tier3 versions they incorporated it into the ECM.
what is your serial number? i might can tell you what should be in yours
  • Posted 13 Sep 2020 05:35
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
Thank you for your reply. 100% certain no codes. Fuel is getting to injector. If I loosen injector body with tank on I will get product. Injector is not actuating. As key is cranked, injector is not firing. There must be something to send PWM to injector. I assume a signal from Cam or crank sensors?
  • Posted 13 Sep 2020 00:32
  • Reply by Tractorhead9542
  • Wisconsin, United States
are you absolutely certain it is not showing a code on the dash display?
it's very unusual for these trucks to not show a code, out of the components you have worked on or mentioned, if there had been anything wrong with them there should have been an associated code displaying on the dash. (unless your dash display is faulty?) does the display show anything? HM?
is the fuel system getting fuel? when you turn on the lp tank you have pressure at the lp vaporizer? pressure at the mixer/injector ports when you turn ignition on?
even with a situation like that you would be getting a low fuel pressure code or something.
not showing codes and not starting is very strange...
i'll check my service grams and see if there are any covering this scenario....
stay tuned...
*****
update: found one service bulletin about hard starting and poor performance and it references the fuel filter in the mixer/injector body. Depending on the year of mfg this filter is located either under a small plate on top of the injector body (2 screws holding it on) or underneath the map sensor where it mounts. It is a mesh type filter screen that can get clogged up. Later models moved this filter screen to just inside the fuel hose elbow where it mounts to the injector body, 2 screws hold that on, remove the elbow and the screen is just inside that hole. it will have a small clip holding it in. DO NOT poke a hole in it, carefully remove it and clean it or replace it.
*****
second update:
found another bulletin about no start no codes dealing with the LP cut off solenoid on the vaporizer. This lock off has 2 issues on record of failing by staying open when the key is off and the second issue is staying closed when the key is on. This issue is caused by tar buildup inside the vaporizer and getting into the solenoid lock off and causing it to stick either open or closed either flooding the fuel system or not allowing fuel to pass. If it's hung open you would smell LP gas even with the engine not running, the other case would be a no start scenario and no LP gas smell at all.
Remove the solenoid assy and check the filter, clean or replace it, clean the valve body, plunger return spring and plunger valve. You can hook up manually to a 12v power source to make sure the solenoid is activating to check the coil.
DO NOT use sand paper or emory cloth to clean it, use a non caustic solvent only.
if you need to replace the filter the cat part number for it is 91A65-00611, the oring part numbers are 91A65-00612 large oring for cover, 91A65-00615 small oring between filter and valve body, and 91A65-00616 small oring between lock off coil and body.
  • Posted 12 Sep 2020 22:49
  • Modified 12 Sep 2020 23:12 by poster
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
New injector and fuse is in
  • Posted 11 Sep 2020 04:41
  • Reply by Tractorhead9542
  • Wisconsin, United States
check the injector fuse its as 5 amp in the harness to the main injector
  • Posted 11 Sep 2020 04:36
  • Reply by theforkliftdude
  • Wisconsin, United States
I have done musical chairs with all the relays. This machine ran but poorly at full bore. I replaced throttle position sensor, spark plugs and cleaned mass air flow. Major response to those repairs. Customer called back a month later asking if I was going to fix the machine. I already billed them and they paid. Went back, just for Giggles removed the vaporizer. Disassembled cleaned and reassembled. Reinstalled it and started machine. Ran for about 15 seconds and quit. No report from injector or assist injector. Order replacements and installed. No change. No codes... pulled Cam and crank sensors. Supply voltage to them. I know crank is hall effect so that's hard to measure. There's a little bit for you to chew on. Let me know your thoughts, thanks for your replies
  • Posted 10 Sep 2020 11:57
  • Reply by Tractorhead9542
  • Wisconsin, United States
it is also possible a bad relay, have you tried new ones
  • Posted 10 Sep 2020 11:21
  • Reply by edward_t
  • South Carolina, United States
"it's not rocket surgery"
it is a possible bad crank sensor, you should try a known good one.
  • Posted 10 Sep 2020 11:20
  • Reply by edward_t
  • South Carolina, United States
"it's not rocket surgery"

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