Discussion:
NACCO Product Change

NACCO is dropping the Mazda and GM engines in their Class IV and V heart of the line product. Share is flat so I guess they need to drive profit in other areas.
  • Posted 10 Dec 2014 06:35
  • Discussion started by malcolm1
  • Pennsylvania, United States
Showing items 1 - 15 of 32 results.
Beeker:It sounds like you have a handle on it. The first 15 years or so in this industry I did eletric lifts only.I have branched out into gas ,lp and diesel.Eletrics have their place and ic units have theirs.I had a customer that put 15,000 hours on units in three years with just minimal problems (ic units). They were bought on cost,not price.They are replaced on a regular basis as they are leased.Swap out propane bottle and go. With batteries somebody is always trying to get out of swapping out the batteries,watering the batteries or dropping them. Then the eletric units will not take the abuse a LP unit will take. We all know thar operators NEVER push ,shove ,run the batteries down to levels that have never been seen before and so on. Battery units have their place but in a hard usage enviroment lp units will always be lower cost in operation. Lets see a 20,000 hour eletric
drive motor. Never have seen one. Then you could purchase 2 lp motors for the price of some eletric drive motors.
  • Posted 5 Mar 2015 23:44
  • Reply by triumphrider
  • Texas, United States
I almost exclusively run electrics in my warehouses where the duty cycle is lighter.

In the manufacturing operation, I just don't have the space to manage the battery charging/changes. Even if I did, I can't justify the investment to switch. We've become very cost effective at running the snot out of LP trucks. I don't have an apples to apples comparison in the same facility, but across facilities, my cost per hour electric vs LP is close to a wash.

My situation is probably not typical.
  • Posted 28 Feb 2015 09:04
  • Reply by Beeker
  • Indiana, United States
Beeker; purely curious have you looked at going electric? Just curious, this will probably open a can of worm discussion but more and more people are going that way. I'd just like to hear from a long time internal combustion user what their thoughts are on new electrics...
  • Posted 28 Feb 2015 08:36
  • Reply by M_VANDENTOP
  • Michigan, United States
It's my understanding that PSI is doing the complete engine assembly, top to bottom. So it's not a Mitsu built engine. The blocks are cast by Mistubishi. Where all the other components come from and how much is shared with the previous industrial version, I don't know. I was assured that much had been re-engineering though.

I've been offered a tour of the PSI facility (located in the Chicago area) to see the process, but I haven't accepted the invite. No desire to be in Chicago this time of year. Told them to call me during baseball season when the Cardinals are in town. LOL

Anyway, I haven't ordered my first unit yet with the new engine. Still waiting for the bean counters to give me the green light. Then I'm 14 weeks out from delivery. My local dealer has taken delivery of a couple though, and when then next ones arrive, I'm supposed to be given the opportunity to look them over.
  • Posted 24 Feb 2015 09:30
  • Reply by Beeker
  • Indiana, United States
Was talking to a service technician for a floor cleaning machinery company recently & they had also discontinued the GM engine offering & switched to Mitsubishi.

He did say the GM engine was basically bulletproof apart from the odd head gasket failure plus it was non interference, verdict is still out on the new Mitsubishi offering.
  • Posted 24 Feb 2015 08:57
  • Reply by Forkingabout
  • england, United Kingdom
I hope not , currently tired of old 4g63 burning oil.
  • Posted 24 Feb 2015 00:43
  • Reply by Nickauger
  • Quebec, Canada
It is basically the 4G63 Mitsubishi engine outfitted by PSI in Chicago. Same basic engine CAT and Mitsi ran prior to going to Nissan.
  • Posted 29 Jan 2015 01:56
  • Reply by Forkdog
  • New Jersey, United States
The mazda motor was built just for the industrial application in fork lifts. Granted it was a automotive based but things like the valve springs which were just strong enough for a 2500 rpm motor operation is just one of the reasons this motor is so durable. Compare a mazda automotive valve spring with the industrial motor valve spring and you see the differance. I have ordered aftermarket heads and they all have the automotive spring.There were other things that was done to tune the motor for this application and it was done right. RIP Mazda
  • Posted 28 Jan 2015 23:10
  • Reply by triumphrider
  • Texas, United States
Anybody have any experience with the Kubota 2.5?
  • Posted 27 Jan 2015 00:27
  • Reply by WJL24
  • Ohio, United States
I agree. The new engine definitely has some big shoes to fill. Like I stated in a previous post, I can push the Mazdas beyond 30K hours. They get a bit drippy and burn some oil, but the darn things will run. Very rarely have had an issue with the long block other than rear main seals going out... usually around 20K hrs. Replace that and the converter seal at the same time, and then keep on trucking for another 5K-10K.

From what I can tell, the water pump on the PSI is driven off a separate accessory belt, so there is one less thing to cause a timing belt failure. Also (in theory anyway) should make the scheduled service procedure less complicated.
  • Posted 27 Jan 2015 00:14
  • Reply by Beeker
  • Indiana, United States
Interference motor? This is going to cause some headaches. I have seen some of the mazda motors go 10000 + hours on timing belts because the customoner just wouldnt let you change out the belt. The only other motor that I have seen that was as good was the nissan H20 series with the iron head.
  • Posted 26 Jan 2015 23:17
  • Reply by triumphrider
  • Texas, United States
Found a this as well. Also seems like I remember reading something about Mitsubishi Japan licensing some one to produce 4G engines a while back I believe that it was Doosan/Daewoo which is referenced in this article.
globenewswire. com/news-release/2014/12/09/689829/10111601/en/Video-Release-Power-Solutions-International-Launches-Gas-Engine-Joint-Venture-With-Doosan-Infracore. html
  • Posted 24 Jan 2015 04:46
  • Reply by Partsguy5
  • California, United States
They were definitely reluctant to refer to it as a Mitsubishi engine, so other than basic architecture, I don't know how much Mitsubishi content remains. Based on the article you reference, sounds like just the engine block.

The valve cover bolt pattern seems to match that of the SOHC 4G6#, so there is some commonality in the cylinder head too. BUT.... here's where it gets interesting.... the intake and exhaust sides are reversed from what you'd find on the passenger vehicle engine (or the Mazda engine it replaces). Hmmm....

FWIW, Mitsubishi Engine North America makes no mention of this engine in any of their materials.
  • Posted 24 Jan 2015 04:34
  • Reply by Beeker
  • Indiana, United States
From what I have been able to find it looks like it will be the Mitsubishi 4G series but only the block. It appears that PSI is working with a joint venture company to have the blocks produced. Not sure on the rest of the engine components but most of those are available already. PSI does manufacture one of the very large GM engines them selves, can not remember which size, because GM quit making it. If you Google "PSI 2.0-2.4 ENGINES" exactly how I have it without the parenthesis the first 2 results should be a file shareholder website that has a PDF with a little more information in it from 2012.
  • Posted 24 Jan 2015 04:16
  • Reply by Partsguy5
  • California, United States
Just got off the phone with PSI.

Yes, it is an industrialized version of the Mitsubishi 4G6# in both 2.0L and 2.4L displacements.

Yes it is an interference engine, with 5K hr belt change interval.

PSI responsible for the final assembly of the Mazda engines as well, so there is some positive history with them.

So there you have it.
  • Posted 24 Jan 2015 04:06
  • Modified 24 Jan 2015 04:07 by poster
  • Reply by Beeker
  • Indiana, United States

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