Johnr J With your experence with Mit/Cat what is your take on the Raymond/ Cat MHA partnership back in the mid 90s. Having worked for both at one time or another I could never see any kind of advantage for Cat.I know at one time several Cat dealers were also Raymond dealers and Raymond would not allow Cat branded products full access to the full Raymond line. Sounds like you are retired from the industry but you still care about it. That's good because it is going through changes all the time and we still need insight people like you provide.