I am also talking about when the customer is not being billed for travel time. Taking a service van home is a benefit to the tech, no gasoline expense, no maintenance expense, no insurance expense, the company pays for all of that even the time it takes for the tech to service the van. duodeluxe in our forklift dealership our techs Do get paid for their mistakes when the company does not, they do go wherever they want for lunch and don't always report that they took longer than an hour, they do use their vans for personal errands against company policy, they do take longer on some jobs that are quoted and still get paid for it, finally the company also eats it if the tech misdiagnoses and causes the employer undue expenses. If this is regular habit then the tech is no longer employed, but most of us make mistakes that are unintentional. We recently hired a couple of auto techs and they are quite happy now. I guess it all depends on if the situation is the norm or the exception and I'm getting that if the company is getting paid for the vehicle use this is a non-issue which I agree with, it's when the company is not being paid or the jobs are flat rated; that is the question. I appreciate everyone's input on this discussion, lot's of good points.