I am pretty sure John can speak up for his self, but the OPs question sounded to me like "if it sounds too good to be true, is it too good to be true" and even the US federal Govco says "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is". That statement is truly "legendary wisdom" or do you disagree?
(and don't you wish there as an html tag for sarcasm)
Saying "I don't mean to be nasty", yet using such obviously pejorative terms as "ignorant and arogent (I think you spelling should have been 'arrogant') " seems to me to directly counter your prior remarks. What it seems to me that MsLiftyloader really meant was "while I don't like to consider myself as nasty, I am going to be". That is sort of as if I had prefaced this paragraph with "with all due respect" yet I am not showing 'due respect', I am telling truth -as I see it-, (in my own opinion), and respect does not fit into the picture at all. It seems kind of a; "lie at little, cheat a little but always be sincere about it" statement on Msliftloaders part.
Is Msliftloader in sales? ;-)
I noticed this particular thread has raised the ire of a number of sales people and other Toyota fans, but to me, it seems like their responses are almost all like little children that are trying to avoid getting found out for their own deceits, while not admitting to the deceit.
I do have to agree that it's not fair to "paint EVERYONE with the same brush", but in the same breath, I have to note that pointing out someone else having made a mistake never should release you from acknowledgment of your mistake, so the discussion of Group D and/or Group E's [such as techs, or ops personal] 'accidents' (as MSliftloader calls them), should never be thoughtfully considered in a discussion of impropriety by (insert any employment category here, such as salespersons, in this instance) Group A, and to attempt to obfuscate the Group A's actions with such a canard should be instantly dismissed as disingenuous, and to me, also then raises the need to question every other remark for it's accuracy and motivations.
I would also like to note that my reading of John's statement attributed to J.D. Mills were a repeating of J.D. Mills own opinions, and were obviously opinion, not factual reporting of an incident, and any attempt to color them otherwise should also be rejected.
your mileage may vary
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