GreenPulse & Duodeluxe

GreenPulse
Not to get into a discussion of sales "pitches" but:
1. I believe it is very common to get 5 years+ out of a battery (assuming a single shift operation) with proper maintenance and charging methods. As an example, I had a customer in a relatively high volume (4.5 - 5 hours average operating hours per unit) single shift operation that averaged 8.5 years out of a new battery (some 11 years) with a fleets of 26 units and lifts to 20 feet many units fitted with carpet poles. Most units were stand up, counterbalance and reach units with a few 3 wheels. They gave the batteries TLC when it came to maintenance & charging - the even use the "EQUALIZE" button on the chargers which 90% of electric truck users knows where it is or what it does and there was no signs of overfilling on the cells (i.e. sulfate). Just like changing oils in an ICE unit - just remember that oil is always cheaper than metal and those cure all additives cannot repair abuse.
2. With respect to warranty there are battery companies, that are price competitive, that offer a full 5 year warranty I have sold them and they live up to full expectation. I believe I made mention of the fact that some battery brands or sales reps claim a 5 year battery warranty in a quote but in actuality it is a 3 year full warranty & 2 years of prorated e.g. GNB, General and other brands.
3. How do you address the issue of " lead shedding" which will short out a battery cell and/or AHC of the battery cell? Sulfate removal from the plates has little to do with that.

If you consider these factors (5-year life) & full five-year warranty in to your analysis then it appears the net benefit becomes less attractive.

Duodeluxe,

I work with a local battery supplier and service dealer here in Atlanta. When they rebuilt a battery they
1.) Advise that you will get a minimum of 80% of the original AHC (actually kWh) of the battery
2.) The battery is targeted for use by single shift operations and up to 3-4 hours per shift & units equipped with simple attachments (side shift, fork positioners types).
3.) They provided test results of the before and after of the battery that was "rebuilt" or "reconditioned", they never implied the battery was "renewed" as this implies that battery is back to original capability.
4.) They backed the battery with a full 1-year warranty.

We sold these batteries in used electrics where operations were slow, e.g. retail carpets stores or small warehouses that wanted to convert to electric. Kinda' like selling a used ICE truck (reconditioned type). They ain't for every body because used means it is partially or almost all they way wore out.
I trust you have a good battery supplier that can provide recon'd batteries and are knowledgeable. I might suggest you take them in to see a prospect the next time you run into "the renew battery guy" or "snake oil peddler"

The reason that I started this discussion was that I lost an order to a customer who bought a "Renewed" battery and I couldn't find anyone in the battery business who could figure out what "magical" thing that could be done to significantly increase the life of a know bad (spell that SPENT) battery. I'm sure those that are in the renewal business feel that the manufacturers feel they are a threat and therefore won't acknowlege that a battery can be "renewed". I choose not to believe that.

It is ironic that these battery re-lifers have proliferated since the economy started its downward spiral. Unfortunatley, one of the victims of a bad economy is customers who buy from companies that tell them what they want to hear. It's too bad for them and it's too bad for us.

I know that the anti sulfation process is different than "rebuilding" a battery. The battery "rebuilders" have been around for a while longer. But to me rebuilding a 48 volt battery by putiing 3 used cells in it is the equivalent of re-ringing 3 cylinders in a 24 cylinder engine that has a half a million miles on it. Who would ever consider that the engine is rebuilt?

My other problem with the battery "Re-Lifers" is that the only forklift people that I know of that sell their batteries have less than stellar reputations.

John,
If you spend $3,000 on a forklift battery with the life expectancy of let's say 3 years, and my system can get you an additional 1 to 3 years out of that battery for say 40% of the cost of a new battery, why not save the 60% and put those savings into purchasing something else. The 30% to 40% cost is for the initial desulphation process. The preventive maintenance done yearly is considerably less expensive. As for battery warranties, they are figured in the favor of battery manufacturers. Let's say you buy a 60 month battery and it lives up to 41 months. The warranty is so pro-rated that when taking the months used against the full retail price of a battery you end up paying about the same money as if you purchased the batter at the sale price. This makes the manufacturer happy. What makes us happy is to help the client exceed the warranty. Let me assure you it can be done with our service and the right maintenance plan for batteries. Also, as the battery gets weaker, the amp hours are reduced and that affects the productivity of the user which is an additional loss of revenue for the client. By our desulphating the battery we help reduce loss of amp hours and keep the clients productivity up. I hope this helps.

GreenPlus,
Why not spend 100% for a new battery and get 100% life of a new battery backed by a 5 year warranty? (yep some of the less expensive batteries have a 3+2 warranty). Your alternative seems to say spend 30% to 40% and get 40 to 90% of the original life with a depending on the condition. Waht type of warranty backs up your service?

Does your cost ball park include replacement of dead cells that have shorted out due to lead shedding off the plates? or Is that extra?

I am a partner in a battery desulphation company located on the east coast. Our service extends the life of the battery from 40% to 90% depending on the condition of the battery. Our service is done at the client's location and we provide a before and after report comparing the voltage, specific gravity and impedence readings as well as any recommendations on the individual cells of the battery. This service saves money by extending the life of the battery and is much less expensive than the cost of a new battery (averages between 30 and 40 percent of the cost of a new battery). The battery reconditioning companies out there make some acid adjustments and make the battery look good, but they really do not do anything to restore the functionability of the battery. Our system removes the harmful sulphur from the lead cells and allows the electricity to be absorbed into them.

I know of a few companies that sell "Renewed" or "Rebuilt batteries" and I would classify them as companies that I would notfeel comfortable dealing with. The ad on E Bay says that their batteries are "rebuilt by the manufacturer". I'd like to know what battery manufacturer is so desperate that they have devolved into doing that. I don't think so.

I googled the address of the company selling "rebuilt" batteries and found the following review:


"I purchased a used lift from Midwest Lift Trucks as listed on e-bay. The lift delivered was certainly not worth the money I paid. It was not even useable as delivered. It had to be sent immediately (due to a very dangerous condition) to a licensed dealer to have major repair work done on it. Hundreds of dollars out of pocket for unit described on e-bay as a "good all around truck." Certainly wasn't. Buyer beware of purchases from this company".

Have no experience with this company regarding reconditioned or "rebuilt" batteries. But I have experience with another company that I considered very reputable that sells reconditioned batteries. Basically what they did to recondition batteries was:

1. Take a used battery - generally 5 to 7 years old and performed a load test on the battery, after replacing any marginal inter cell connectors and acid balance each cell. Any cell that could not deliver at least 80% of the original amp/hour capacity capability was replaced. This process took 2 days.

2. This company would provide a test report that reflected the battery cell ratings before and after "reconditioning".

3. This battery company would warrant the battery for 1 years - parts & labor - provided a compatible charger in could working order was used to charger the battery. Undersized chargers will do a lot to shorten the life of any battery - new or used. This company also sold reconditioned chargers.

4. This company also advised that "reconditioned" batteries be recommended for applications where the forklift is used (actually operating time) a maximum of 2-3 hours per day.

We had very satisfied customers but he was local and could perform service & warranty issues easily - very important consideration.

If the company you are looking at is not in your country - you may find it difficult to import them into your country unless they are installed in a lift truck first or the battery is a "dry cell" type - which a used battery would not be. Check into this closely. This caused me some issues when I sold new equipment into Mexico for about 10 years.