Discussion:
Jungheinrich 16 hour runtime guarantee

I recently came across a Jungheinrich ad guaranteeing 16 hours of runtime without battery charging or changing. Does anyone know the technology(ies) behind this bold claim?
  • Posted 26 Jan 2017 08:41
  • Discussion started by BatSwapper
  • Illinois, United States
Wash it, Move it, Charge it, Stack it!
Showing items 1 - 15 of 37 results.
Would an opportunity charger address your needs. We were told that it reduces the need for watering and washing the battery as the temperatures don't get as hot. Info that I found doesn't support the salespersons pitch that this charger significantly reduces battery maintenance and is practical for a 1 shift operation. We are currently shopping for a 3 wheel electric forklift. We are concerned with battery maintenance for a 1 forklift operation. Hangcha recently came out with a 3 wheel Electric Forklift with Lithium-ion battery that doesn't require maintenance and may address your needs for a 2 shift operation. Spending a lot of time investigating and looking for info about this product.
  • Posted 15 Nov 2020 04:03
  • Modified 15 Nov 2020 04:06 by poster
  • Reply by Wayne_G
  • Georgia, United States
Wayne
i wonder about DOD on these batteries. as stated 36 kwh battery. using 80% you would have 28.8 kwh available power before recharge is required. Jungheinrich has proven to be a very efficient machine in the U.S. market so I can absolutely believe this claim. In medium or light duty operations. IMO high cycle operations running 2 shifts per day would destroy a flooded battery in 3 years or less. 8 hrs recharge - when is cool down? And yes i know about the HF charger.
  • Posted 28 Mar 2019 23:34
  • Reply by philip_a
  • Ohio, United States
just a battery guy
kWh = (750 Ah × 48 V) ÷ 1,000
kWh = 36,000 ÷ 1,000
kWh = 36 kWh

If you factor in a few breaks etc. During the 2 shifts, then it won't be far short.
  • Posted 22 Mar 2019 18:56
  • Reply by heightlift
  • North, United Kingdom
exhalt
One thing you need to factor in is that a lift truck does not accumulate a full 8 hours in an 8 hour shift or 10 hours in a 10 hr shift. Typically, the usage is 3.5 to 4 hours. Most end users have no real clue how many hours a fork lift runs in a shift - they will say the number of hours in their work shift. At one time hour meters were replace frequently for a lot of reasons including reliability, hum an factor - operators like to break them- they think they are tattle tales - today's hour meters are more reliable and human resistant.
In my 41 year in the lift truck business the most I've seen a fleet of trucks operate was 5.5 hours out of an 8 hour work shift - in both cases it involved cross docking operations at over the road break bulk centers for freight carriers - Roadway and ABF
  • Posted 22 Mar 2019 09:06
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States
The electric consumption of a 2 ton Reach truck is around 4Kwh per hour. Now lets say Junghierich have managed to cut this in half to 2 Kwh per hour so to run 16 hours with out charge or lose of power you would need a 38Kwh battery. Im not sure what size the battery in the Junghienric truck is but I don't think it will be 38Kwh
  • Posted 22 Mar 2019 06:30
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
No smoke or mirrors here! Biggest lead acid battery possible for the truck model, 8 hr high frequency charger. The secret is incremntal gains from the motors, softwear, controllers, all desgiend & manufactured by Jungheinrich to work holistically together, short routing of electrics, black/white hydraulic valves for minium friction/energy loss, regenerative braking (& lowering in some cases). Factory backed guarantee - if it doesn't last 2 x 8 hours shifts you get a free additonal battery. Simple!
  • Posted 21 Mar 2019 18:43
  • Reply by Supertony66
  • Milton Keynes, United Kingdom
Are forklift OEM's telling the truth when they say their big electric trucks with a Lithium iron battery can do double shifts, with intermittent charging. Now if a 6,000kg machine the lift speeds and travel speeds compared with diesel are slightly slower so if you were to say they would be around 20% less productive with lead acid batteries and about the same with lithium iron battery. So we can take this part of what they say as true. Now when you look at what the range would be its slightly different. Say they have an 120kwh lithium ion battery. The average usage for the 6 ton truck is 12.6 kwh per hour, based on a 8 hour shift that's 100 kwh leaving the battery with 20khw un used electric, now say the operator have one 30 min break and two 15min breaks during their shift and uses this time to recharge there truck using a 30 kwh charger this added to the charge left after the shift would give a starting shift charge of only 50 kwh, to complete the shift the truck would need at least 100kwh and say you would get a further 30kwh of charging through the shift this still leaves 20kwh short.
  • Posted 28 Feb 2019 06:44
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
I asked some in our technical department and based on what heightlift said the battery would have a 32Kwh range now based on 16 hour range they would need to use 2 KWH per hour. Now as said earlier the usage per hour is 4.2KWH normally they would have to cut this by 50%. So basically they can get the range but you only get half the power.
  • Posted 6 Feb 2019 07:58
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
I'm quite open minded on this and if there has been any improvement in lead acid batteries its would only be a good thing.

WE have seen our self's improvement in Nickel Zink battery technology and also Lead crystal battery technology. so yes improvements can be made and their are some very good engineers working in these areas.


As for Litium iron catching fire , i would not like to see one battery catch fire because the result could be catastrophic, some one might loose a life or a business they have spent years building up. This is why i highlighted the fact that in different areas lithium iron batteries have caught fire, Samsung Note, Boeing Dream Liner, Apple i phones and i believe possible a Straddle Carrier in Australia caught fire a year or so ago. Now if it can be shown that Lithium iron batteries can be safe and would never catch fire then great. They can improve efficiency in the warehouse environment as can hydrogen fuel cell's. and it might even look now that so can lead acid



You might also notice over the next couple of month tesla moving into solid state battery technology., and Jungheinrich launching the new EFG 6 series up to 9 ton. So there is going to be plenty of development and choice over the next couple of years.

What wil come out on top no one knows yet , but one thing is for sure the customer will decide what is best for them
  • Posted 6 Feb 2019 05:48
  • Modified 6 Feb 2019 06:05 by poster
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Heightlift, don't spoil exalt's fun you must know by now that he can't wait for the next lithium battery to catch fire!!
  • Posted 6 Feb 2019 03:39
  • Reply by DonkeyPunch
  • Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Exalt this is standard lead acid battery. 48v 750ah
  • Posted 5 Feb 2019 20:16
  • Reply by heightlift
  • North, United Kingdom
I totally agree with Swoop 223. the only way they are going to extend the running time of the truck is to slow down the power usage to half what they normally run at. Again this would also need a 32Kwh batter pack saying 16 hours at 2Kwh per hour used.

Again charging Lithium Iron batteries at this rate even with quick "opportunity charge will need time for the battery to cool down or do they have a cooling system in the truck. This comes back to how long will it be before one of these truck catches fire.

This is will become a very important issue in the future as companies try to get customers to use Lithium iron products in the warehouse as against hydrogen fuel cells. That in this environment are safer and better on fleets of 20 trucks and over.
  • Posted 5 Feb 2019 07:31
  • Reply by exalt
  • Dubai, United Arab Emirates
so lets say they can tweak their machine to be able to run 2 shifts on a single battery charge. It's still going to have to be recharged which is going to take at least 8hrs and then the cool down time after that.
So are they really gaining anything from this?
Still going to require multiple batteries to run a productive and efficient operation.

The consumer will have to buy the special battery that can actually last 2 shifts unless they are claiming ANY battery will last this long based on how the truck runs. So still stuck with the above scenario.

And lets say they claim using a battery charger that will quick "opportunity charge" a battery will eliminate the charge time and cool down time, this is not like putting a battery through a full charge cycle and i don't care what they say about this type of charging, it is not healthy for the battery in the long run.
And lets not forget my previous post about high rate charging systems and the dangers of those type of systems, not to mention the cost of them to begin with. The trade off is not good enough imo.

I would feel safe to say jungheinrich has made a trade off of tweaking the truck with low power settings to allow the machine to run this long so it will be slower in every respect. I've seen other mfg's attempt this and fail at it because the operators complain about how slow the machine is and wind up turning the settings up to run faster which negates the whole "energy saving" and "long runtime" scenario.

I saw a lot of promise when all the mfg's came out with the newest control systems with the A/C powered drive systems and they do gain a bit of efficiency which does allow a better ratio between run times and battery charge cycle life so in effect they do get more run time out of each battery charge but i have not seen anything like this under normal conditions even with the newer A/C control systems.
And let's not forget how sales literature and promotional advertisements go, they usually wind up being a misconception based on facts they do not reveal in the advertisement that are only found out after the consumer buys the machine only to find out there is a catch to achieving this goal they claim, or that the special ground breaking claim they make can only be met under certain conditions that they fail to mention in the promotional sales media.

I guess only time will tell to see if this is truly a miracle milestone in the material handling industry.
  • Posted 5 Feb 2019 01:53
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
Yidneck, i dont think they are claiming to be twice as efficient. They just say there truck can work 2 shifts. It could be that the Linde could do 1 and a half shift.
  • Posted 4 Feb 2019 22:01
  • Reply by heightlift
  • North, United Kingdom
@Yidneck
MCFA seems to put their money where their mouth is as they sent unit or units round North America in a tractor trailer for an extended period of time to prove their point in a customers environments. News announcement was dated 11.3.2017.
Go to their website and got to their news section to see what they are telling the "public" on the "net".

For more details call MCFA or your local MCFA dealer.

Worked for MCFA for 11 years up to April, 1996 (Actually 4 years at MCFA and 7 years at MDI (Mitsubishi national distributor for US & Mexico).
Certainly MCFA is a much different culture today than back then.
  • Posted 4 Feb 2019 08:03
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States

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