Toyota 42-6FGU25:
Foamy Engine Oil

Hi. I had the question about the spark plug tubes and appreciate all the prompt responses I got.

However I have a problem with the same forklift, a 1998 Toyota with the 4Y engine running on propane. The engine oil became really foamy and beige in colour. I drained the oil, poured a few litres of old oil that I had into the oil filler on the valve cover and let it drain out through the drain plug. I refilled with 15w40 Shell Rotella and changed the oil filter. This was a week ago and the engine has been run since for maybe two hours. Oil Analysis at a lab showed water but no glycol in the oil. Also, last year I drained out green coolant and refilled with Detroit Diesel PowerCool Plus coolant which is red in colour. There is no trace of red colour in the oil, just beige. The coolant is a non 2-eha OAT and is silicate and phosphate free. I know Toyota likes a stiff dose of phosphates in their coolants.

I checked the oil today and the foam is beginning to come back. The oil was fine after the oil change and the engine running for ten minutes.

Coolant level has not dropped at all. I cannot tell if the oil level has risen.

The forklift operator pointed out that the engine is low on power and that all this coincided with him getting the propane tank refilled about three weeks ago.

The only sources of water I can think of is coolant, condensation and propane contaminated with water. I would expect water as a contaminant in propane to vaporise and exit through the exhaust rather than going in large quantities into the crankcase.

I am stumped. I am going to change the oil again and run the forklift on a barbeque tank to eliminate propane contamination, unless someone has other suggestions.
  • Posted 9 Mar 2014 13:31
  • Modified 9 Mar 2014 13:33 by poster
  • Discussion started by Georg
  • Ontario, Canada
Showing items 1 - 9 of 9 results.
Hate to have to bring it up but a crack can also let coolant leak into the oil.
  • Posted 12 Mar 2014 21:18
  • Reply by mrfixit
  • New York, United States
Yeah, I'm kind wondering now if this might be a coolant issue.
But, I was figuring for sure the oil analysis would have disclosed that.
I have had a couple of cases where a leaking head gasket was letting water track from a coolant passage over to an oil drain passage. But not on Toyota engines.
The engines had good compression and did not show any of the usual signs of coolant leaking into a combustion chamber.
One engine that bugged us at a job I worked back in the 70's led us to drain the oil out of the engine and place a catch pan under the open oil pan drain.
Then we pressurized the cooling system and left it.
Yes, pressure leaked off and we pumped it back up.
In a little while we started to see coolant dripping out the oil pan drain. We also had all the spark plugs out and none of the cylinders were filling up with coolant.
Pulled the head and finally saw where the coolant had etched its way from a coolant passage to an oil return passage.
  • Posted 12 Mar 2014 14:46
  • Modified 12 Mar 2014 14:48 by poster
  • Reply by L1ftmech
  • Tennessee, United States
If this condition is a new symptom perhaps you have a faulty head gasket- the symptom to look for with this issue is the level of oil on the dipstick- is it raising up on the stick? Pressurize the cooling system & see if it holds pressure.
  • Posted 12 Mar 2014 06:22
  • Reply by bbforks
  • Pennsylvania, United States
bbforks (at) Hotmail (dot) com
Customers love technology- until they have to pay to fix it!
I just replaced the thermostat and the engine is not running any hotter than with the old thermostat. My IR temperature gun still reads 81C on the back of the water pump. The new Toyota stat was rated at 76.5C, same as the old one.

"milky" isn't strong enough to describe the emulsion of water in the oil that I just drained for the second time in a week. This oil has only been in for about two hours engine run time.

I have a Dwyer magnehelic gauge that reads inches of water column and I measured crankcase vacuum and it read 1/2 in water column vacuum which indicates PCV is working properly. A visual inspection of the PCV valve shows nothing out of the ordinary.

Sure the engine does not run for very long each time it is started but we have had the forklift for over a year and we used it the exact same way last year and did not have this water in the oil.

I am going to sample the oil again and get it tested. Perhaps the lab missed glycol last time.
  • Posted 12 Mar 2014 05:56
  • Reply by Georg
  • Ontario, Canada
short run times cause condensation
engine not breathing because of pcv valve can cause it
blown head gasket definitely can cause it

quite a few thing actually

i'd do the oil & filter changing definately
check compression (just to be sure)
clean or change the pcv valve
and try to run the engine till hot more frequently
  • Posted 12 Mar 2014 03:35
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
In reading your other post about the tube issue- you state that this unit was purchased at auction about a year ago. Given that info- if the unit's last life was subject to multiple cold starts throughout it's day that would certainly account for the milky engine oil.

With that said- it might take numerous oil changes to get all that sludge out of the engine. As was previously stated- replace the engine thermostat, use thin engine oil -10w- & let the engine run (about 1,000 rpm) until the oil starts to look milky again. Then change oil & filter & repeat- complete this cycle until there's no more milky appearance in the oil after it has been run for a while.
  • Posted 12 Mar 2014 02:28
  • Reply by bbforks
  • Pennsylvania, United States
bbforks (at) Hotmail (dot) com
Customers love technology- until they have to pay to fix it!
I would also check the pcv valve and hose to make sure that's ok.
  • Posted 9 Mar 2014 22:53
  • Reply by mrfixit
  • New York, United States
Thanks, L1ftmech. When I changed the oil last week and started the engine, the upper rad hose was warming up within five minutes, well before engine operating temperature was reached. I know that, in engines with the stat located at the upper rad hose, this indicates a thermostat not closing properly. But this engine has the stat located on the lower rad hose. I have a IR temp gun and will investigate temperatures to see if the engine is reaching full operating temperature. I will probably replace the stat anyway.

The dipstick falsely indicating water does not apply in my case since the engine oil really had a lot of emulsified water in it when it was drained.

As per your suggestion, I will focus on the operating temperature.
  • Posted 9 Mar 2014 22:37
  • Reply by Georg
  • Ontario, Canada
First thing to check here in a case like this to to make certain that the engine thermostat is working and is of the correct temperature rating.
A cold running engine is unable to quickly heat up the engine block and pistons so they can expand to the close tolerances they need for both efficient combustion, and to minimize combustion blow by past the rings and into the crankcase.
Water is a byproduct of the combustion process and the water will be blended into the lube oil and form an emulsion. This emulsion is usually a short lived phenomenon, but in cold running engines it can persist and build to unacceptable proportions.
Engines running at the proper hot operating temperature do not have a problem expelling the water from the crankcase oil because the water will evaporate out of solution when the lube oil heats up.
Engines that get cranked up and run only a few minutes at a time throughout a work day, never reaching full, hot, operating temperature are also susceptible to having water entrained crankcase lube oil, even if they have a good working thermostat of the correct temperature rating.
Engines that have a long dipstick tube, especially if the dipstick does not seal tightly to the tube, can give a false indicator of water in the oil when operated in cold ambient conditions. This is due to the long dipstick tube staying cold in the ambient air conditions and because the dipstick does not have a tight seal, the crankcase is allowed to vent out some blow by gases (which will contain water vapor) and some water will condense inside the dipstick tube. As the dipstick is withdrawn from the tube, it will drag some of this water/oil emulsion out with it. Dipsticks in these cases often take on a rusty appearance too.

A cold running engine can also account for a loss of power.
  • Posted 9 Mar 2014 15:25
  • Modified 9 Mar 2014 15:32 by poster
  • Reply by L1ftmech
  • Tennessee, United States

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