As a straight commission sales person you are not going to survive the long term without treating the customer with honesty and respect even tho the trend today with the large users is to buy every thing using deceit to drive the price down to where the loser ends up with the order. And then they want consignment parts, free surveys, extended warranties and extended payment terms and we in the industry line up like fools to get these kinds of orders to give our Manufacturers bragging rights.

salesmen have a code of ethics?
chuckle chuckle
kidding guys

code of ethics varies from one to another in sales people depending on how desperate they are to sell thier products.
I think reputation would drive this code of ethics or visa versa
but yes... a list of rules to follow would probably be a plus as long as the sales managers enforce them ;o)

have a happy holiday!

The question isn't whether an end user should get free help- but whether he/she should be allowed to be taken advantage of because of their ignorance of our industry. I frankly get tired of apologizing for the actions of others in the forklift business.

How many threads on this web site have been started by an end user who has bought a truck at an auction or private sale that has had issues and is looking for free trouble shooting. I'm not saying that we shouldn't help them at all but they know that they can call a dealer and get it fixed pretty quickly and efficiently. Aren't we enabling them to do just what we don't think that they should do?

Maybe that answer could be part of a "standard checklist" somehow. We all know a 5 year old warehouse machine lease return with 8000 hours maintained as promised by a dealership should have plenty of life left. Add loading trucks up a ramp- now the tranny should have a shortened life. A one " bump at the bottom of the ramp and mast mounting bushings and steer axle thrust bearings are probably affected. Did the customer change tires at the agreed time?? The front of the bottom of the mast might show you this, and as we know running tires beyond a service limit will beat a truck to death.
I think worth noting, IF THE ORIGINAL DEALERSHIP FELT COMFORTABLE SELLING THE MACHINE TO HIS EXISTING CUSTOMER BASE, IT WOULD PROBABLY NEVER MAKE IT TO THE INTERNET FOR SALE!!

Not to seem even weirder than I already do, but this is sort of what I am talking about as far as defining what we mean, how could it be "good used" if "it had to be rebuilt"?
Maybe we confuse "good" and "well" here, where it was "well used" but not really "good used"?

Exactly. Everybody has a different opinion. I just bought a good, used steer axle for a customer which had to be rebuilt. One of the king pin bearings was split and sticking half out and the king pin wobbled back and forth a half an inch. But the good new is that my supplier greased all of the fittings including the one at the bad bearing. When I called they said that it was sold as good used and if I wanted a rebuilt one I should have been more specific.
I am torn on whether we should educate internet shoppers, afterall I would say that the buyer is just as "selfish" as the seller. A good paint job really sells well but they don't notice that the left hand outer fender is missing or the control valve handles are totally misaligned or worse yet it was a foundry or paper recycling truck with "only" 2468 hours!
The ad doesn't spell it out but do you see those two long rods with with knobs sticking out of the floorboard. That means it's a standard transmission truck. Is that what you really wanted.

Because I'm familiar with the industry, as an end user, the last thing that I would buy on the internet is a used forklift truck but a lot of buyers are much better shoppers and a lot smarter than I am.

Hello Sonialuo...
I agree that, while there is close connection between the "code of ethics" and a series of not too complicated questions for forklift end-user/possible purchasers, it maybe better to split into separate (and overlapping) conversations.
I also agree that anyone could -say- they follow any code of ethics, [Kind of like how I insist that no employee use the phrase "to tell you the truth", since that phrase indicates there are times when -truth- is not being told] in the USA {at least, and most likely any place that wants to have integrity in their marketplace}, if you advertise you do something, and then fall to live up to that advertising, there can be serious repercussions.
As I see it, the series of questions should be more important than the "code of ethics", (and important to keep brief and simple), as the answers should tell more about about the ethics than asking someone if they are honest, since everyone would -claim- to be honest.
I also agree with forklifter that part and parcel to either, [and inclusion by reference in both is a 'must'] that some clearly defined terms to reduce ambiguity in sales would be a good starting place.
what is "rental ready". what is "safe and serviceable", what is "retail ready", and how they differ. I think an open source/ creative commons type license, usable by everyone for free universal outline for a used truck condition report should be pretty easy as the start point.

HELLO

Good points BB. I think those of us in the industry would love to hear from some end users. Good experiences and bad. And what would you like to see from our side- to give you a predictable and affordable buying experience? I take a lot of digital pictures during our rebuilds. Would this be valuable to a potential buyer to confirm the work stated had been done? What are your warranty expectations? Obviously, the more warranty, the more risk on our side. So presumably a higher purchase cost. Would a 50/50 warranty be sufficient if it helped lower the purchase cost??

Well- here it goes- my 2 cents worth:

gatorman- you are absolutely correct- there are multiple associations in our industry & all of them have a code of ethics. The question is- who abides by them? I have had several local franchised dealers- who have all the plaques in their showrooms of all the associations they belong to, have no ethics at all when dealing with customers. Ignorance on the end users part ends up being more profits for the dealer. And in the end, this behavior gives our industry a bad name.

I wanted to thank the admin for giving us a chance to post our thoughts on this issue- there are some of us out here who care about this industry & where it's headed. I've been giving this topic a lot of thought since admin started the thread.

I believe a check list is what's needed for end users to be able to make informed decisions on a used forklift purchase. If a signed form of the exact condition of the equipment along with the specifics of any warranty offered is given, then maybe a level playing field again may be possible.

Perhaps an association specifically for internet sales could be established- an association with a code of ethics specific to this type of transaction. I would think that membership to such an entity would hold value to end users & therefore make the lifts offered by members more valuable. Also then- conversely- violating the code would mean dismissal from the association. Just a thought- waiting to hear others views.

Any end users out there have anything to add?

There are enough Codes of conduct for all the Material Handling Associations. IMO it all boils down to Integrity-Webster's definition: Adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character, honesty. I speak of this having worked in the industry and retiring after 40 years-6 of those in service functions and 34 working in the same sales territory calling on the same accounts. You can't go to Walmart and buy a 5 Lb. box of Integrity, consume it and claim to have 'it'. If the management of the Co. you work for is lacking it- it's time to move onto a place where they have interest in investing in their future by investing in yours in the form of training and product updates and standing behind your decisions with the customer. The primary reason that independent or Franchised dealers have to move further out of their territory is their lack of 'it' and you continue to do your job in your own territory you will make a difference. It takes many years of working at 'it' but will pay off in the long term. There will always be people that will bite on that 'to good to be true' deal- just be sure to be there for the next opportunity.

We received this from the Australian Industrial Truck Association (AITA):

I note in todays issue of ForkliftAction.com (edition #645) the reference to the discussion / suggestion about the need for a code of conduct or ethics to cover forklift sales and service.

The Australian Industrial Truck Association (AITA) represents the interests of the major suppliers of lift trucks and associated equipment in Australia. The major focus of AITA is to ensure the highest possible standards of performance, safety and client satisfaction. To this end some years ago the AITA developed a Code of Conduct under which all AITA members currently operate.

Further, the AITA has developed a guidance note to provide advice to consumers considering purchasing second hand, or grey import equipment from overseas. This is one of a series of guidance notes and technical bulletins developed by the AITAs Engineering Committee to provide up to date information on issues of concern to the industry.

These documents are available on the AITA website, or here for your information:
- AITA's Code of Conduct
- AITA's Guide on Grey Imports.

Sue Hart
Executive Officer
Australian Industrial Truck Association (AITA)

Great Subject. First thing needed in my mind is a defined repair process for different levels of "reconditioned". Example: Level 1- XXXX hours or less on machine. All safety and operational needs addressed. Oil samples pulled on IC machines and results provided to customers. Counterweight slicked and OEM style paint and decals. Documented compression/ transmission pack pressures. 75 percent or more remaining on tire tread. Includes warranty. Level 2: Same as level one, except no transmission pack pressures or engine compression. Tires 50 percent or better. OEM paint and decals but not "automotive slick". Less warranty. Level 3: Same as level 2 without paint and less warranty. ALL RECONDITIONED FORKLIFTS START WITH LEAKS AND DEFICIENCIES NOTED. THEN DEGREASE AND PRESSURE WASH. TOP AND BOTTOM. (yes that means lifting machine in the air)