mod big trux - i reckon there is a chance our paths have crossed, i worked out the artful dodger from a few clues he gave me, i recall an earlier thread and didn't know where he'd moved onto until today, good luck to him anyway ! Iam so glad i took the job offer that came my way a few years back, but do miss some parts of old job and the guys, but we keep in touch every so often down here.

gerrard- i am ex Mhead-do i know you? you are right about the artful dodger,i know him.
clockwatcher,you mod?

clockwatcher, there is a good chance we know each other, although iam a little further south than you, id imagine, i know a few of the guys from the Mhead and have a feeling that artful dodger was one of them but moved on to PS possibly just before i left, but i could be wrong - There were some nice people there in my time, i served 13 years, but gather this new wave of management are hellbent on making desperate changes to arrest the slide but are making changes at any cost, guys like us who have had to face customers every day bear brunt of it ! There are also some people there who are being paid lots of money in the office who's contribution in the grand scheme of things amounts to very little, and we know who they are, except there are more of them now iam hearing !

gerrard I have been here a long time and know what you mean about the old ways.I do not have long to go now but I worry about the future for the others and the company.
There are so many good people here,but it has been ruined by a few.

sorry clockwatcher, i wasn't being totally straight, my friend is no longer in employment with the company, he left for a variety of reasons, this latest game they are playing was the final straw.
Iam also an ex employee who left in 2008, and knows the ways of working from old, my reasons for leaving were a bit different but can't go into it on here.

gerrard you say artful dodger should have stood up for his rights so why are you standing up for some body else?
Should that person not be standing up for themselves?

clockwatcher, iam sorry, i do see your point, the whole thing has got quite complex and people obviously are confused to their rights, plus any kind of negiotiations at this stage i would say has to be made with the right legal representation.
LiftnGoad i don't understand why you are questioning my rights to add to this forum, okay i may not work for the company but iam standing up for someone who does.

gerrard an individual cannot stand up to the might of the machine whether they have the right to or not.
In another forum somebody said report the bullies to HR,but that would be like jumping out of the pan into the fire.
That is why the engineers are joining the union to fight back as a group.

Gerrard could i ask what is your interest in all this ? You don't work for the company you say but seem to be pretty opinionated on some of the areas of BW and their operation ?

I don't know the guys circumstances of leaving and iam not criticising him for that, but it was his choice to leave wasn't it ? Employees have the right to take up any particular grievance they have with their Employer, regardless how BW opererate.
Eagle Wings just by the name alone sounds a load of baloney, does the engineer who wins it get to wear a lapel badge !

Why should people not comment when they have left? The guy had a lot of pressure put on him and felt he had no choice but to leave.
BW have lost a good engineer and he has lost his long service benefits to become a new start with almost no rights in his new job.
Eagle wings is an internal award and is pointless.

Its a shame that with so many of you guys trying to fight the same cause that you get some people who choose to make out they are somebody that they're not !
I take it some of the engineers that left still want to get involved with the current engineers criticism of the way things are run ?
Is Eagle Wings an industry accredited award, if it is then it must be something quite special then ?
Its not one of those awards that you get nominated for by people within the same company is it ? They tend to be pretty pointless as its a bit like voting for your local MP, most people can't be arsed, and in a company thats so divided, it would have even more of a hollow ring to it surely ? ; -)

Good luck artfuldodger old friend,or is it sparkey?
I think you may have signed in as the wrong person,gotcha!

Hi folks, i worked for bw for 16 years, some said i had yellow blood, i was hard working & very loyal, my team won uk eagle wings & came second world wide in 2009, they treated us like crap. i had to get out as the job made me ill, i have just started with a german forklift company ( jun*****ch) & they treat us like people, we dont have any c**p that bw put on us, no score cards, vans not tracked or speed restricted, it just goes to show if you treat people right they will look after you.

Thanks for the insight highetstacker, to be honest i only joined the group because i felt a sense of loyalty, to one of your now ex engineers that used to come into my shop. He is a lovely guy and was enlightening me to how he had been treated by this company after 17 years of committed service. I take on board what you have said there regarding the company and how they have taken it upon themselves to make many changes that are obviously detrimental to their survival. As you rightly say its the customers that should be their priority, but to sacrifice their most vital commodity, i.e. their engineers, in the way they have treated them, looks to be likely to signal the demise of this company. I understand one of the big players in this market are currently taking advantage of some of the disillusioned staff that are leaving the company, picking up staff who join them with a depth of knowledge and experience within several elements of the business.