Discussion:
What model of vaporizer?

I am installing LPG-injection on my ancient 1997 Mazda B2500 diesel pickup.

Its a little project of mine, after I added a Variable-Geometry turbocharger and large intercooler (450 mm x 300 mm x 75 mm) to it.

I recently bought a used Nissan-Nikki vaporizer, but it has no model number or any other identifying marks.

I am posting pictures of it in the hope that some kind members will be able to help me with its I.D., specs and plumbing, maybe even have a few install or explanatory diagrams too.

I can't seem to find a way to post pictures on this thread, would appreciate some help...
  • Posted 27 Feb 2014 17:12
  • Modified 2 Mar 2014 13:33 by poster
  • By dusky
  • joined 27 Feb'14 - 6 messages
  • Metro Manila, Philippines
Showing items 1 - 11 of 11 results.
dusky- I would HIGHLY recommend that if you're unfamiliar with LP systems then you buy & install a prepackaged system. LP is highly flammable (read explosive) & can & will inflict massive personal & property damage if handled incorrectly.

LP converts into a gaseous state the moment it's depressurized & it's about 110 octane. These 2 factors combine together to become a lethal combination if not handled correctly. From reading your post it would seem you are unfamiliar with propane.
  • Posted 5 Mar 2014 22:52
  • By bbforks
  • joined 1 Mar'12 - 1,437 messages
  • Pennsylvania, United States
bbforks (at) Hotmail (dot) com
Customers love technology- until they have to pay to fix it!
Hello again.

If you can't ID the vaporizer could you possibly give me suggestions on how to plumb it and what the various valves, screws, etc are for?

I would appreciate any help you can provide.

Dusky Lim
  • Posted 5 Mar 2014 15:38
  • By dusky
  • joined 27 Feb'14 - 6 messages
  • Metro Manila, Philippines
Dear swoop223:

I am aware that elsewhere the fuel savings are probably marginal, but here in the Philippines the savings are significant.

There is a 25% difference (per liter or gallon) in the price of LPG and that of ordinary Number 2 diesel.

So merely replacing some of the diesel with LPG will produce savings.

Furthermore there is the improvement in power and combustion efficiency.

The more complete burn means the remaining diesel fuel injected will be better utilized.

The extra power will mean that I won't have to step on it harder for the same performance and we all know that results in better fuel economy.

I am also reducing the delivery of diesel so that more of the engine's power will be produced by the LPG.

The ratio of LPG vs diesel is between 1:3 and 1:5 for best results.

I am doing this not just as a personal project but for many other reasons.

The more complete burn will result in much lower emissions and less engine oil contamination for soot.

The extra power will be more than welcome - one can't have enough power, can one?

I am co-owner of a repair shop and we can offer this mod to our customers.

I thank you for your interest and concern, and if you give me your e-mail address I will post some pictures of this project.
  • Posted 2 Mar 2014 13:47
  • By dusky
  • joined 27 Feb'14 - 6 messages
  • Metro Manila, Philippines
yeah dusky, i guess if this is a hobby and giving you something to do then i suppose this would be something worth puddering around with (so to speak) ;o)
I've been a tech for many years and built many engines and have even gone through diesel school (years ago) so something like this would catch my curiosity as a project too.

But i too tend to agree with what that site said about economy savings... are you actually gaining any savings? You may be gaining 'diesel fuel' savings by injecting the lpg into the combustion chambers to help burn the 'unburnt' fuel and pick up some extra horsepower in the process. But are you really saving money though? (i am going to assume money savings is not your goal here, or is it?)

You are dealing with 2 fuels now instead of one and given the ratio of diesel v/s lpg being used per gallon per mile and just having to now buy 2 fuels for this vehicle...
are you actually coming out to the better? Can you understand what i'm getting at? The cost of savings on diesel fuel is offset by the cost of purchasing the lpg fuel so your not really saving anything. Based on the age of the engine the fuel consumption varies, the newer engines with all the emission controls are alot better at burning fuel so the burnt to unburnt fuel ratios would not be in the range you speak of,they would be considerably less, so i assume your engine is an older one. So adding lpg injection may help in that department somewhat but if a decent exhaust system, top grade fuel and adequate adjustment to fuel delivery and timing is applied the engine would burn most of the fuel anyway. One of the biggest enemies of poor fuel consumption on diesel engines is poor compression (worn rings), poor injection(faulty injectors), dirty air intake filters(lack of proper air), and incorrect timing and of course poor quality fuel.

You're probably saving the environment somewhat by eliminating the polution being created by the unburnt fuel emissions which is a good thing i guess but as for economy savings i just don't see it from my point of view.

The one thing everyone can agree on though is you do get more power out of this added component for sure... everyone seems to agree on this point. ;o)

But being a hobbyist project i can see the attraction to doing this...
i myself would probably try it too ;o)

good luck and let us know how it turns out once you get it installed and dialed in (so to speak) ;o)
  • Posted 2 Mar 2014 00:13
  • By swoop223
  • joined 23 Mar'12 - 3,691 messages
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
According to the sites I have seen, addition of 20-30% LPG allows for more effective combustion of the diesel (as the diesel engine can only burn 70-80% of the diesel fuel injected - I suppose this is at maximum delivery - full power), up to around 95-98% complete.

The more complete combustion (greatly reducing smoke emissions) gains you more power from the existing diesel injected and the extra propane/LPG also contributes to the total power.

The claimed power gain varies from 10-30% more depending upon the model and age of the diesel engine.

In addition to the power gain, there is also claimed to be a significant gain in fuel economy varying from 10-20%.

Because of less efficient injection, older model diesels gain more power and fuel economy than the newer Common-Rail designs.

The injected LPG poses no explosion hazard as the amount added to the inlet air is less than the lower ignition threshold of LPG in air.

To put it simply, the LPG-air mixture added is just too lean to ignite and burn on its own without external help.

This is where the conventional diesel injection comes in, conventional diesel injection and combustion start as in the standard engine, but the presence of LPG in the air speeds up and makes the combustion more complete and efficient.

If properly done, LPG injection should give me around 20-30% more power and 10-15% better fuel economy!

Puttering around engines is my passion and hobby, so for me it is worth a little trouble.

I thank you again in advance for any help you can provide.
  • Posted 1 Mar 2014 22:41
  • Modified 2 Mar 2014 13:28 by poster
  • By dusky
  • joined 27 Feb'14 - 6 messages
  • Metro Manila, Philippines
"are there any real advantages here"
Raw power output, no. Propane is less powerful by volume than gasoline.
But, if operating at extreme inclinations or tilt of vehicle is encountered in operation (such as off road and rock crawler vehicles) then propane is the fuel of preference because neither the fuel tank nor the fuel system is much affected by the angle or tilt of the vehicle.
With gasoline, you have issues of whether the fuel pump suction port can be kept submerged in the gasoline at extreme angles, and if the delivery to the engine is via carburetor, there are issues of maintaining a useful float operation to meter the gas flow at extreme angles.
Another advantage of propane is its Octane rating. With an Octane rating of 100+, you can utilize a higher compression ratio with less worry of detonation.
  • Posted 1 Mar 2014 04:24
  • Modified 1 Mar 2014 04:26 by poster
  • By L1ftmech
  • joined 25 Apr'12 - 394 messages
  • Tennessee, United States
just curious....
but... are you doing this just to see if you can do it?
or are you just trying to gain performance?

i'm sure you may have already seen this but are there any real advantages here?
read the article and then come back and give your thoughts...
http:// w ww.bankspower.com/techarticles/show/23-Propane-&-the-Diesel
just remove the spaces i added in the url prefix
  • Posted 1 Mar 2014 03:55
  • By swoop223
  • joined 23 Mar'12 - 3,691 messages
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
Sir I will e-mail you some pictures in hope you can identify it.
  • Posted 1 Mar 2014 03:11
  • By dusky
  • joined 27 Feb'14 - 6 messages
  • Metro Manila, Philippines
Sir:

I am using the recommendation from an Australian site called AutoSpeed where they featured LPG-diesel gas injection.

Here is the link to the article: http:// www. autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=112610

(please remove the spaces I inserted to post it)

I admit I do not exactly know whether this particular vaporizer/regulator is suitable to my needs.

The operating pressures of my LPG injectors is 2 bar (maximum 2.5 bar).

I saw an adjusting screw (with a locknut) on top of the vaporizer.

I assume that I can adjust the pressure to my 2 bar limit via this screw. (Is this correct?)

Injection control will be by a MegaSquirt 2 ver 3 that I just finished assembling.

I will use LPG 2 injectors and fire them alternately.

I will use RPM (N), a MAP, a MAF, TPS, IAT, CLT sensors, to control injection.

And a EGT sensor to monitor the results.

I appreciate any help you can give.

Thank you very much.
  • Posted 1 Mar 2014 00:19
  • Modified 2 Mar 2014 13:32 by poster
  • By dusky
  • joined 27 Feb'14 - 6 messages
  • Metro Manila, Philippines
I know I've seen LP injection on diesel applications for more power, but what pressures do these systems usually use? All these LP regulators we discuss on this site are set at different output pressures, some even will only work off a vacuum source.
  • Posted 27 Feb 2014 23:54
  • By bbforks
  • joined 1 Mar'12 - 1,437 messages
  • Pennsylvania, United States
bbforks (at) Hotmail (dot) com
Customers love technology- until they have to pay to fix it!
Dusky,

Generally on the Nissan/Nikki vaporizers the Nikki number and the Nissan number is stamped on a raised portion of the front plate in the upper left hand side. It will be hard to identify from just a picture as they pretty much look the same. Do you know what the vaporizer came off of? If you want to send me a picture you can email it to me at s_schilstra at yahoo dot com replace the at with @ and the dot with a period.
  • Posted 27 Feb 2014 23:23
  • By Partsguy5
  • joined 13 Jun'12 - 409 messages
  • California, United States

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