hey,guy, i like ur experience in the past, cause i'm a new one in sales field, will u give me some advice and be my1st forum friend.

any body ever heard of teamwork? Sales & Service are two faces of the same thing, Climax would still have been a household word if the 'THEM & US' B**lls**t had not ruled the roost.
To the customer( who pays for us ALL!); we all are their supply partners surely?

ok mate. have you left yet ? think i'll be on site tuesday with any luck

Hi catchme, I will get one of the lads to get yours when they see you next.

hey snapman , i've lost ya email adress. how am i gonna get hold of you ?
webeeeeeeee

Again Sales people will have there job to do but that should be on larger sales where there will be more profit ,What i was meaning on sales of one or two trucks the internet will take over

my hat's off to you howard. we need more sales persons like you. keep it up and help all of your co-workers a little wealthier.

To your point, all we in sales can do is get us in the door with the shmoozing some buyers expect and demand, service keeps us in or gets us kicked out, so yes, ablsolutely invaluable.
Now that you have online dating and virtual **** we probalbly won't need hookers either.
I guess there are people who buy shoes on the internet also. I have found it better to make sure I have the correct fit. There is also the taking of responsibility for the order being right. Simple, no brainer cookie cutter orders, sure you do not "need" a salesman.

For your information.I was a technician from 1977 to 1996 when I was offered a sales position. I still do a lot of fabrication, modifications, and installation of attachments in order to keep costs lower. I do qualify a lot of customers and last year I had over 40% market share through sheer hard work and a lot of hustling. I am also a licenced mechanic and not a bad welder. Most of my customers used to be my service clients and they know that I am honest when I tell them about the workings of any truck. Im still a technician at heart and a salesman second.
I pity anyone coming into the forklift business fresh into sales. There will be a long dry spell before you start earning a decent living

That's a bit harsh Snap :-)

joe d has got it spot wright a good service engineer is your best sales rep. That's not to mean sales rep's arn't important they are but more sales will take place over the internet and more sales will basted on rental

I wholeheartedly agree that without the service tech there would be no point to salesmen. No matter how good the salesman, if the service side falls on it's face that customer will never buy another lift from that company. On the other hand a good tech will help push for sales. I've never been a salesman, per se but in 11 years working for my previous employer I've pulled in many forklift sales and service contracts for our salesmen.
For instance, a few years back I get a call from my area salesman saying I needed to call this new customer that just moved into the area from California and that he's wanting to buy 4 new pcs. of equipment but he won't sign until he talks to the service tech that will be taking care of the equipment. After talking to the customer and checking the specs (which I modified...the saleman was a little miffed), he not only signed for those 4 but came back 6 months later and purchased 2 more for another location. No commission for me...no free lunch....not even a T-shirt.
Every customer that I had long term I ended up working on everything in their house, whether it was forklifts, booms and scissor lifts, stretchwrap machines, etc., And when it came to purchasing any new equipment in these areas they came to me and I turned to our sales staff.
Bottom line is, take care of your service techs or they won't take care of you!

Love your idea on commission! I work and have worked on commission in an industry where "being welcomed" back is critical. I think that engineers should also be on commission, if they don't design or produce something of value, they don't eat. Everyone can be directly tied to the health and welfare of the organization, i.e. commission. Tie it to production of what ever their part of the process is from recptionist to shipping clerk. Yes, the unions will love the idea of pay for procution! Just like the "salesman's union" oh....wait.....there isn't one :-)
Commissioned sales people are often the target of jealous perspectives as they often earn more than the seekers of a secure paycheck who do just enough not to get fired. As far as salespeople, they are a reflection of the organization, if they are cheats and liars, they are not the only ones. Great idea, no work, no productivity no pay.
Now, how about you, are you willing to earn based on what you produce?

Edward i think you are right the best sales guy for any company is the service guy , He is the one who meets and deals with the customer all the time. A good service tec is your best sales rep as many companies look to him when they need a problem solving. As for the internet most managers are sales people who have come up though the company so they don't want to see there way of doing things change but look at Apple first with the ipod this has changed the way most customers buy there music now they just download it at a lower cost, then the iphone again most people use it for many different things.So for the companies who say the best way is to go and see the customer then spend all that time losing money trying to get a sale good look but you wont be trading in 10 years time or if you are you would have lost your share holders all there money. Barlow have proven that. Another point is that most managers are now younger so dealing on the internet is more natural they understand that they can just search for a product
and it is there on screen in a couple of seconds no one calling taking up there time in the office no one ringing them to find out whether they want there machine. none of the hassle that comes with dealing with certain people. What the forward thinking companies will do is see an opportunity to be able to make sales and increase profits and be able to pay good wages to good people because with out this they wont survive. Another point is that people are talking gross profit what is important is the net profit which might be a loss say of $1,000 so its just cost the company $1,000 to sell a truck. Then if there is a truck to come back that is on lease with a balloon payment and the value is $1,500 and the final payment is $2.500 then you can add another $1,000 on to the loses so now you have just lost $2,000 do this 20 times
and thats a $40,000 loss on this rep.

Howard needs to re-recognize that one of the things any sales person needs to do is to be able to "qualify" the customers and decision makers and learn not to spend so much time "spinning his wheels" with non productive dealings, rather than complaining (?whining?) about how "earning a living selling is as tough as any job out there".

NO, IT IS NOT.

When you have been a shop and field service tech for about 8 years, come back and tell me that again.
Also, Howard, you may find that showing appreciation to the hard working service techs may be one of the best investments of time possible, since the service tech will have a reputation as a "straight shooter" with his customers that a salesperson would not have, and the service tech will also be the person whose opinion of "time to get rid of this one" will be almost as important as the opinion of the customer's accounting department, in helping make that sale.

I am sorry, and I offer an up front apology if it sounds as if I am calling you (Howard, personally) as being disingenuous, but I have yet to met any salesperson that took the job because of the physical or any other sort of challenge it offered. If you can not make enough money as a sales person, try twisting the wrench (and not just for a day or week). I have done most every job in the forklift industry (to the point of being considered expert by those I recognize as my peers) and I promise you that it is far more tough, and you fall in bed far more tired at night, in being the best (or just average) service person your company has than be, as opposed to being the very best sales person. Tell us again that you took the job as salesperson because it was tough and you thought you would be the best person for that job, that you would not want to make someone else work that hard so you took it upon your self to be the one doing the difficult work, and not that you took that job because it was so much more attractive to stay clean. (and that "you" is a generic you aimed at anyone that thinks the job of sales is as demanding a job as being the new guy in the service department, not just Howard.
Now on to Dave'160s comment.
I am firmly of the opinion that internet sales of capital goods are still being fought down (tooth and nail) by the "brick and mortar" entrenched "powers that be" as they try to protect their turf, and it will take the success of sites willing to make the effort and put in the time the way forkliftaction has, before the Internet makes any differences to the new truck sales.
There is no free magic bullet* that the brick and mortar set can tap into to change their ways and move into the 21 century without a learning curve, and for those who think they already know it all, learning and change can often be an experience that includes a great deal of pain before the need to learn is appreciated.
I hear that some dealers think twitter is a magic bullet. I think they may be surprised if they ever account for their time as well as Howard did, at the effort that it takes to fire that particular magic bullet.

I would also like to make the point to John_J that sales persons are not needed. Demand for the product is needed, and a salesperson's only true function is to clarify the need in the customer's mind, for the product they represent. There are thousands of products sold daily without any sort of sales call. The salesman does not "make the sale", the demand for the product makes the sale. So John, your statement of; "When you look at the basic elements of any business there are only two essential elements to them - someone to produce the product or service and someone to sell the product or service and if someone didn't sell the product or service you really don't need someone to produce them", would be far more truthful and accurate (in my not so humble opinion) as; "When you look at the basic elements of any business there are only two essential elements to them - the product or service and demand for the product or service, and if someone didn't need the product or service you really don't need someone to produce them.