OK???

Richard,

All I can tell you is that I worked for Yale for many years. Once I made the move to Toyota I discovered a much greater appreciation for the standards of manufacturing and expectations that manufacturers have of their dealers. I have trucks delivered to customers and don't have to deal with phone calls for warranty work that I had with Yale.

I had a customer the other day that had a 1994 3-wheel truck that had 37,000 hours and 27,000 miles on it. I asked the custoemr what work had been done? He said "tires and that's about it".

There's a reason that the majority of major manufacturers of anything and everything follow "TPS" Toyota Production System.

I've been to the manufacturing plants for Toyota, Raymond, Komatsu and Yale/Hyster. Nothing compares to the investment that Toyota has made in it's plant in Comumbus, In.

Yes of course I am biased, but I have had the opportunity to work for or with at times most major lift truck manufacturers and have some perspective.

"idle up" is to max out efficiency and bring it up to full horsepower
lifting a load at 700 rpm isnt very good (for the engine, pump, emmisions, etc) either
so its not a question of being underpowered..but its a question of correct utilization of available power and efficiency

Toyotaman; by your user name I can see where your allegiances lie. I have to say that I am not a big Toyota fan or do not see where any Japanese truck that I have seen or driven is any better than any other truck. The one thing that I've noticed that all Japanese trucks have in common, especially those with "C" channel triple masts is this: Lift a full load at maximum fork height, Side shift the load and watch the mast deflection. Pretty scary to me...and I'd still like to know why most Japanese trucks need to employ an "idle up" device to keep the engine from stalling if the engines are indeed correctly sized to the truck. My guess is that the 4Y engine just might be a little too small to power a 6,000# pneumatic.

Dito to Steve I.

Steve, I can't wait for the 8-Series Class 3.

Hi Folks,

As a Toyota dealer I can say that sales of the new 8 series forklifts are booming. Initial quality has been excellent and the ergonomic improvements are very visible and well received by customer's drivers.

BTW I am sure that the Toyota name is resented in much of Michigan. And we all know why. Here in the South the Toyota name plate means quality, reliability, and value. Is it 5 or 6 years in a row that Toyota has been the number 1 selling forklift in the US? I have lost count. And that achieved in spite of a mediocre Class 2 product offering. Customers vote with their wallets and vote they have.

If Clark, Hyster/Yale, Mitsu, or Nissan can build a better product than Toyota then do so and string 5-6 Number 1 years together. Competition makes us stronger as an industry. Real sales pro's know that, whether young or old. Japan did not put Clark out of business. Poor management and arrogance towards their customer's needs did. And let's not forget that good old Clark owes its very existence today to a Korean Company.

Good Selling!!

yeah i have to agree
toyota makes 1 good machine
im a mitsu/linde dealer and i work on alot of off brand stuff (ALOT of clark)
toyota do seem to last a long long time
japanese trucks are high quality products (mitsu's are built in houston texas) with better design with maintenance in mind than american trucks
nice of hyster to route the hyd/trans lines directly below the starter bolts on the gm engine (yeah fun times getting those out of the way)
**** trucks use bent pipe along the frame to clear obstructions (small extra up front cost to lower maint costs to the customer to encourage repeat sales)
clarks with the mitsu engine the starter take 3 times as long to get out as a mitsu with the same engine and starter setup just because of the poor location of the hyd valve and piping
(i can get 1 out and back in of the mitsu in 5 minutes (4g63 etc)

lindes are great machines too
i believe # 2 selling behind toyota worldwide
(www DOT iht DOT com/articles/2006/11/06/bloomberg/bxbuyout DOT php)
most who buy lindes dont go back to another brand even though they are much more expensive

Tom,

The fact that you're in MI and sounds like you sell Yale or Hyster may mean you work for a friend of mine Darrell W.

"It easy to be negative" this is one of the earliest lessons I learned in the lift truck business.
This will get you a few deals but it will lose more for you in the long run.

As far as price is concerned I have lost many deals to Hyster and Yale on price. I know why because I have their pricing and on about 50% of the trucks Yale and Hyster is less expensive than Toyota especially when the factory gives a couple of extra points of discount to buy some market share.

As far as quality is concerned, Toyota makes a quality product which is why they are #1 on cars worldwide and in the US. Toyota has been #1 in lift trucks in the US since 2002 with about 19% of the market with Toyota alone (more if you include Raymond).

We regularly have trades that return with 20,000-30,000 hours. No smoke and still run well. Not to say that the Mazda or GM engines don't last this long, but in my experience selling these engines they last 20,000 hours tops.

NACCO builds a quality product. The dealer cost is within 1% +/- of Toyota depending on the model.

Toyotas has seemed to follow the philosphy of "KISS". Use one reliable engine for a long time and perfect it. Toyota has used the 4Y engine since 1986. Hyster has used the GM 2.4L for even longer I think. Yale has used the 2.0 and 2.2L Mazda for a long time.

As far as the profits are concerned, you don't have a leg to stand on. Toyota is a publically traded stock just like NACCO. People from every country around the world probably own both stocks. This is where the profits go!

Every truck sold in the US by Toyota is built in North America. NACCO can not say this.

Sell the positives of your own product rather than the throwing mud at the competition.

PS. Exacty what problem with Toyota have you seen that make Toyota "Junk"?

Toyotaman,

I may sound like an old school Clark Salesman (ha) infact I used to sell them years back. But enough is enough! I see my customers I lost to **** Crap coming back to me now and they are not sold on "Cheapest is always best" Any of us that have not sold out Amercia can understand this. Ture you make all your parts under one roof.
Your mast is junk!! Here in Michigan we have seen a TURN AROUND
Customers are seeing the value in buying American and keeping Americcan dollors here where they belong. Oh BTW I never try to sell the Mazda, Always a good old American 2.4 General Motors Engine LP Injected. I hae won many deals pointing out the fact that Toyota is junk and why would you even consider puting money into the ****'s wallet? Yeah I may be old school and don't shop at a Super Walmart and drive American Cars.

Tom,

Having work for Yale for many years I am well aware of where the components they purchase to assemble their trucks originate. Mazda engines, Sumitomo transmissions and many other manufacturers from overseas that they use to assemble their products.

Notice I used the term "assemble" a few times. Toyota is a true manufacturer that builds it's own mast, engine, transmission, frame and steer axel.

By the way who has the largest lift truck plant in the US? The answer is Toyota, almost a million square feet in the heart of the US. Employing almost 1,000 people at this plant alone. This is one of 4 plants in North America for Toyota/Raymond.

Another note TM is the stock symbol for Toyota and NC is the symbol for NACCO. They are both traded on the NYSE. So the profits go to the stockholders! Guess who the 2nd larest shareholder is? Fidelity Mutal Funds! Over $1 Billion is shares! Does anyone have their 401Ks invested with Fidelity?

Please excuse the rant. But Tom reminds me of the old Clark salesman from the late 1970's that said "I'd steer clear of any **** Crap".

By the way Clark ha dthe world by the shorts hairs then with over 30% markets share and today have about 4%.

I'd steer clear of any **** Crap!! If you plan on keeping your cost of operation down Toyota is not the way to go....There cheap for a reason. Buy American and keep American dollors in the good old USA...Buy Crown,Hyster,Yale, Taylor

Since, no one else has any opinion I'll put in my 2 cents.

Toyota went back to the core of what makes the trucks great. Heavy duty trucks similar to the 5 and 6 series but with the SAS and ergonomics of the 7 series. Still keeping it simple with one engine and one transmission. The truck has been received very well by customers and should continue to improve overall marketshare.

any experience for share ?