Have a look at the Hyster Hydrogen truck, But from what i have been told the hydrogen fuel cell wont last very long do to vibration


Heighlifter don't know what sort of warranty you get with a fuel cell but for a 3,000kg forklift a hydrogen fuel cell would cost around $20,000

Hello:
Anybody had experience with Hydrogen on Demand for Port Equipment Reach Trucks or other equipment?

Thank you

What sort of warranty do you get with a lithium battery and a fuel cell? How much do they cost to replace? Example and equivalent to a 48v 700a/h lead acid battery, somewere in the region of £3K to replace and comes with 5 years warranty (battery warranty not always worth the paper it is written on)

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2017/07/21/1055627/0/en/Plug-Power-Announces-Expanded-Collaboration-With-Walmart.html

Number of Wal-mart DCs in the US and Canada using hydrogen fuel cells as of Oct 2017 =33

Not so fast!
Wal mart is biggest user of Plug power hydrogen fuel cells. 2 huge distribution centers down the road from me (Wally took over Target) side by side, with 500 cells running, (another 400 broken) in fast paced Dc's. So, as mentioned right here in Fork lift news Oct 4, Wally world decided to go with Electrovaya's drop-in lithium-ion battery at Dc in Toronto Canada. Maybe it's something to do with hundreds of broken HFC's that nobody seems to be able to fix. I saw them with my own eyes, rows of them. Plug power blames wally, wally blames them...in the end there are too many broken cells. So, back to square one, Wal mart will buy 4 million dollars of batteries and hope efficiency will return and less headaches from smoother running lifts.
If they were happy with fuel cells, they would not be buying Electrovaya's lithium ion batteries.

Having worked for one of the developers supplying FC power units for fork trucks I can say that large customers in NA operating on 2-3 shifts per day are moving to hydrogen over battery trucks due to increased productivity. Furthermore, they will convert their entire fleet, even class 3s, to FC so they can totally eliminate battery charging infrastructure. A large distribution centre with FC fleet will move more goods for less money than the same centre running battery trucks. In the end this is the only metric that counts for them.

For these customers, lithium does not add anything significant over LA batteries as they have higher upfront costs and still require charging (i.e. downtime). Fast charging sounds good in theory but, as someone pointed out the power required to charge in 5 min is massive and with a fleet of 200 trucks is completely unworkable not to mention the electrical peak demand charges.

Battery electric will still have their place and will continue to be used on smaller fleets or 1 shift operations; a significant part of the overall market. They will also continue to be used in Europe as the large, multi shift distribution centres are less common and hydrogen is more expensive due to lack of Liquid H2 infrastructure (thanks NASA!).

Cost of hydrogen will not be influenced to any great degree by the technology in the truck but rather by the uptake and increased use of hydrogen as a fuel source across a number of industries, primarily automotive. The material handling industry is less than 1% the size of the automotive sector worldwide so it will be a follower rather than a leader with this and most new innovations.

yes hydrogen will be affordable for customers with a single truck, it will be all about the design of the truck. But in price comparison with the new developments in Hydrogen fuel cell for automotive this will help reduce the price for materials handling

What about small fleets of 5 or less? Will hydrogen be affordable to those customers?

with GM Hydrotec the cost of hydrogen fuel cell will be come lower, this added to the advantages of Hydrogen fuel cell powered trucks will enable them to be more competitive over the truck life in smaller trucks.

Wants this breakthrough has happened over the next three years then hydrogen will lead the way in forklifts as diesel did for many years before it

Nothing is wrong with Lithium Iron Phosphate in MH Equipment, in fact it's what BYD uses in their lithium lift trucks and it works well.

What really needs to happen is a breakthrough on cost.

Mr Goodenough who inverted the the lithium battery has been working on a new and improved battery nick named the glass battery. Could this be the break through the industry has been waiting for.

exalt-

Wal-Mart and Amazon have not purchased equity in PLUG...they have been issued warrants which they may exercise...huge difference...and not a great deal for PLUG, to be clear.

exalt in NA specifically the US diesel powered sales has been dropping for several decades. At one time most of the large freight companies (Roadway, Yellow Freight, Central Freight, etc in the US utilized diesel forklifts (solid press on tire units) for truck loading and unloading. Diesel powered equipment in Mexico is all but none existent except in large lifts used in ports & steel operations.

NOx poising issues associated with diesel engine emissions started the downward trend. Diesel emission clean up (NOx, smoke, soot, etc)standards started the ball rolling and as a result diesel fuel pricing became more expensive that a gallon of gasoline - before all this diesel fuel used to be about 25% lower than gasoline (aka petrol in some areas) and today it is a bit higher than gasoline..

Hi Wiggy


Thanks for the input, i think in North America last year , electric forklift sales under 5,000kg over took Diesel sales for the first time so customers are moving towards electric on smaller forklifts

The performance difference between some types of electric forklifts and diesel forklifts in the smaller truck range is now marginal this wil have a big effect in future sales.

Personally I think it will be a long time before lithium becomes common place on counterbalance lifts and reach trucks. Until the price gap closes between lead acid and lithium it's hard to justify the cost.

As for hoping for 5 min charge times in the future I cannot see that being a reality. What about charger input currents? You would need say a minimum of a 48v 200ah lithium battery to give a 1.5 tonne counterbalance a 2-3 hour run time and to be able to allow enough peak current for motor operations without overstressing the cells.

This is only approximate and based on 100% efficiency but 48v x 200ah is a 9.6kwh battery to charge in 1hr would require the same charger input, however to charge in 5 minutes would require approximately a 115kw charger input!!!!! Plus another 25-30% for inefficiencies and your up to roughly 150kw input.
Now your average industrial unit doesn't have anywhere near this level of power available on their buildings mains main feeder let alone just to charge a forklift.

I do agree though in the under 5 tonne bracket I'm struggling to justify diesel over electric now. Clean, quiet and plenty of torque. Modern AC counterbalances are the only forklifts that don't struggle to climb the back of a beaver tail lorry, just sail up no fuss at all, a minor point I know but blows the 'power' argument out the water.

Electric is the future but there is a long way to go, and it's not just the fork trucks themselves.

Im having a discussion on a different platform and have been getting some interesting points manly from people who have got a interest in diesel powered forklifts. Now yes i do have a interest in HFC forklifts i want to make that part clear. but here is something of the discussion whats peoples opinion here

There are many people who still don't want to take the blindfolds off and relies that hydrogen fuel cell forklift are not only more sustainable but are in fact much better value than Diesel, LPG or CNG forklifts over 6,000kg so let's let the figures do the talking.

Hydrogen fuel cell 10,000kg forklift

Cost price $ 125,000
Number of oil / filter changes over 5 years 9
Cost per hour including fuel $ 12.5


Diesel 10,000kg forklift

Cost price $ 128,500
Number of oil / filter changes over 5 years 43
Cost per hour including fuel $ 17.5


Now you might still want to believe that hydrogen won't over take diesel within 5 years , but in 5 years' time will you still be in business

As companies look at for a more sustainable product to reduce their CO2 foot print Hydrogen fuel cell powered forklifts will answer this need above 6,000kg. Nearly all manufactures of large counter balance forklifts have still not raised the blindfolds of design when they are looking at a sustainable option for their customers. They believe that the customer would settle for an electric powered forklift that use lead acid batteries or even in a very small number of cases lithium iron. But the reality is somewhat different, A 8,000kg electric forklift has a service weight of 14,100KG, electric forklifts provide high levels of productivity but do not produce any (CO2) emissions. However the range is only 6 hours before battery recharging. Battery recharging on electric trucks takes from 6 - 12 hours meaning the truck is unavailable or battery exchange is required to provide continues availability. Compared to an 8,000 kg Hydrogen fuel cell truck weighs only 11,800 kg has a working range of 16 hours before a 5 min refueling

I see lithium playing a big part for big players Linde, Toyota, Jungheinrich etc. for national contracts, supermarkets transport companies etc. but until it is tried and tested i don't see many independents getting involved there is too much risk if batteries fail, its not just a case of replacing a cell when it fails. its major work each time. i could imagine the cost of replacements are not cheap either. To me lithium is not tried and tested in forklifts.

It seems to be the manufactures of trucks pushing lithium and not the battery manufactures pushing lithium. That is just my thoughts.

Major Global companies are looking at more sustainable products. DP World are leading the way in the port sector. With Amazon and Walmart in the warehouse sector, This will be either Lithium iron products or Hydrogen Fuel cell products