Showing items 1 - 20 of 41 results.
Checked with my mfg contacts as promised and here's what I was told.
* The advertised draw bar pull specification is exactly what the definition of draw bar pull is (see below). Draw bar pull can pertain to towing a disabled forklift, towing a trailer, locomotive pulling rail cars, farm tractor pulling a bottom plow etc... as long as you remain within the manufactures draw bar pull specification I don't see the issue. Draw bar specifications for any type of equipment that requires a draw bar pull specification are calculated taking into consideration center of gravity, braking, converter stall, horse power (IC or Electric) etc...
o Drawbar pull is the pulling force, or pulling ability, of a vehicle. The definition of drawbar pull is the towing force of a truck or other industrial vehicle, exerted at its coupler (or equivalent) in the direction of motion of the coupling point. Drawbar pull is typically expressed in pounds or Newton's
yes karait, it is refreshing to see so many different personalities come out about different subjects here. Some are more passionate about it than others but in the end it helps broaden ones perspective view a little bit (if they have an open mind that is) ;o)
I personally tend to lean towards intention of design and specs and through experience have learned there is always a grey area you can work in but generally it always pays to 'tow' the line so to speak and use equipment as it was intended to be used. There are some that push the envelope a bit, sometimes successfully and other times not. When your dealing with an expensive machine though and also with legalities and safety there are alot of things to consider using equipment.
One thing i've learned over the years is 'if it can happen it will'.
Meaning you can think of everything, every scenario to try and prevent bad things from happening but its the things you didnt think of that usually come up and bite you in the rear ;o)
Just some thoughts to add.....
good day all
Well, I see the simple subject caused some emotions ;-)
Relating some previous topics.
I think the Linde salesman would confirm in written the possibility of using his truck for towing, just to underline the advantages of hydrostatic transmission and brakes.
Concerning the safety issues.
I dont know what is the difference between towing dead truck with another truck and towing some trailer.
What is the technical difference (traction, brakes) between the towing wehicle with lift mast and without it. Frankly, if you take the mast off the truck you get something pretty similar to the tractor.
Some trucks even look like tractors with additionally mounted masts.
The traction and braking abilities of towing tractors and forklifts are not very different.
One more remark.
My private sedan was not designed to tow the trailers either, but when I installed a hook (and registered it) I could attach the light camping wagon (with proper mass ratio) and travel over several european countries without any legal problems.
I'm quite sure that if a salesman was asked to put in writing with his/her signature that a forklift could be used as a tugger on any occasion the answer would be no.
When a question is vaguely answered or addressed in a brochure or literature there's a reason. There's never a question about lifting height, weight capacity, etc. Isn't it interesting that when this question is raised, there are so many interpretations?
I'd love to see what OSHA would have to say on this subject if someone got hurt using a forklift as a tugger with company approval- I bet they'd have no trouble interpreting this question.
I know Linde for there hydrostatic 392 & 394 machines state in the operators manual that a rigid tow pole should be used.
The tow bar on the truck is really meant for moving a broken down forklift / vehicle out the way, its not really designed for everyday operational towing use.
In 7 years we have used it once to move a van that was stuck in the snow.
well cownd your spec sheets roughly reflect the weight of the trucks relative to thier drawbar tow specs. Whats that tell you? ;o)
Thank you johnr I.; I have one year less than you but still active. I hear what you're saying but would like to use your suggestion to find out the opinions of the manufactures.
I have a few spec sheets here in my office and for drawbar pull the first three show the following.
* Yale/Hyster
o 120VX/7,000 lbs draw bar
* MCFA/Cat/ Mitsubishi
o DP50KN1/6,000 lbs drawbar
* Taylor
o TX160/14,360 lbs drawbar
Monday I'll contact each and ask what their interpretation is for their specification pertaining to drawbar pull. I'll share the findings should be interesting.
Crowd: Ask Yale for their interpretation, they are the manufactuer or their authorized representative (aka dealer).
I mentioned in an earlier post when sizing a tow tractor a basic rule of thumb is one lb of "CONTINOUS" draw bar pull (DBP) can pull a rolling load of 50 lbs on a level surface (most warehouse & plants) actually have a ~1% pitch for drainage purposes) with low friction tires (say steel) at the stated loaded travel speed. Clark used to publish such an application sizing booklet when they were in the tow tractor business & had their tractors at every airport I ever flew out of for a longtime - TUG took over whem Clark got out of the business (the TUG looked just like the Clark).
Do the math following your reasoning. The published DBP of a counterbalance lift is the MAXIMUM rating of the unit - which maybe (depending on the manufactuer) at motor or torque converter stall or a 1 mph (which most Japanese companies publish) and their numbers are lower than many US brands. You DO NOT want to operate a motor or tranny at stall for any length of time unless you have a real big checkbook and down time is not an issue. I have yet to see a lift truck company publish a continous DBP rating for a counterbalanced lift truck and my career in industrial lift truck industry started in 1967 & ended in 2007 (retired) with four different companies. Besides developing tech manuals I had a very extensive back ground in lift truck spec. sheet development and evaluating competitve equipment as well as their collateral material. Granted things may have changed since September, 2007 but I doubt it. I know I have changed my hair is a little grayier, I wear glasses now but my BP is in the 120 's.
Thanks johnr j, I agree with your parts manual comment but I was just using that as a reference point. According to a Yale 120VX operators manual the "tow pin" is to used for towing a disabled forklift with another forklift and as a tie down point for transport, as motioned earlier. If you have disabled forklift @ 17k lbs being towed by another forklift as recommended by the MFG what's the difference if you're towing a trailer as long as the gross weight does not exceed the MFG's maximum draw bar tow spec?
cownd,
What does the manufactuer's operators manual /operator training programs say??? This is the key document. They most often give the specific do's & don'ts as outlined by the manufactuer & those define by various requaltions like SAE (formerly ASME/ANSI) & OSHA. A parts manual basically gives an illustration, a lable to reference a part number, a written description (sometimes specs.) & but not much info about the function or purpose. Used to be a technical writer for parts, operators & service manuals and later operator training programs all for industrial forklifts.
Calling a pin a tow pin could mean a point to which a "dead in the water" forklift can be "towed" to a repair area or on to a tilt bed deliver truck equipped with a winch vs putting a chain aroudn the OHG legs or a forklift carriage bar.
The difference in this case is that the end user is using a Linde Hydrostatic fork lift to tow with. The hydrostatic transmission has dynamic braking which will stop the load. In towing it is not as much to have the torque to pull the load but to have the braking power to stop the load. You can tow with a Torque converter forklift if you have enough braking power but I doubt the MFG. will stand behind the product in this application.
I have to disagree with Edward T this time about tow pins vs. tie down points. If you check the forklift manufactures part books they still label these as tow pins furthermore, they provide a specification for that on the spec sheets. If you're going to use a forklift to tow use the manufactures recommend specification for that function.
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cownd, those are no longer "tow pins" those are now "transport tie-down points". (big plaid button up shirt red-neck grin)
What it matters is how safe can you stop and/or steer a series of trailers vs how safe you can stop and/or steer a forklift that has picked up and is carrying a properly loaded pallet or '****' of materials around pedestrians, and just where the brakes are mounted to (it may not be the best idea to have the only brakes on the very front wheels of a train).
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There's a reason forklifts have tow pins. What matters is what your planning on towing?
Ed T,
Current OSHA, SAE standards support what you say. But once upon a time a company called Ford Motor Company, during the period from 1964 thru 1967 did in fact use lift trucks to pull a train of trailer scarriying engines on stackable skids from the engine plant to the Dearborn Assembly Plant in the Rouge complex. How do I know this, I was there working 67 hours/week during those summers at the Dearborn Assembly Plant making $2.67/hour and helping Henry Ford build Lee Iaccos Mustangs & earn $$ for my college, tuition, R & B, books & entertainment. Ford had very strict safety standards for their lifts publsihed in there ZA-1 & 300-A standards. Fast forward a few years 1969 OSHA came into effect, in the late 70's visited two Anchor Hocking facilities one in Ohio, the other in PA - they used forklifts fitted with glasspack handling attachments to pull packaged glassware on a train of flat bed trailers (8-10 as I recall) to the shipping dock. But by the mid 1980s lfit truck sompanies no longer condoned this practice.
Edward t:
Perhaps I was not very clear with my writing.
Of course this particular chapter of the standard applies only to the trucks which have the technical ability to tow a trailers.
This includes of course tractors, but conterbalanced forklifts too.
The standard itself applies to all industrial trucks, but obviously some topics have limited application. In this case, they are the trucks which have a hitch.
In other cases, it's application is limited only to the trucks with the lift chains (chapter 4.6.1) or overhead guard (4.9.1).
Generally, my conclusion is as yours. You simply defined it more precisely.
ISO recognizes the praxis of towing application realized by non-tractors. And, defining the safety requirements, accepts it.
For me, personally, it's a waste of specialized machine, but as my customer stated, for him it's economically reasonable.
Karait, I think your "conclusion" that the standard applies to all powered industrial trucks is mistaken. Your quoted ISO standard says clearly that it applies only to "Devices for towing" and clearly states it covers; "Trucks used for towing trailers". You are using a standard that covers the safety of the hitch, not that ALL trucks can have a hitch.
No one can accurately define what weight a trailer can be loaded with, to reflect 'draw bar pull', since raw weight is only 1 of the factors of 'draw bar pull'.
IMNSHO; a far more accurate 'conclusion' of that section of the ISO standard would be that the ISO recognizes that some times a powered industrial truck (which includes towing tractors as a 'class' of powered industrial truck) may be required to pull and when it is, it must be fitted with -proper- devices to attach it to what it is towing, not so much that ANY Powered Industrial Truck should expect to be used to tow.
Not all powered industrial trucks are tow tractors, but all tow tractors used indoors to primarily move goods and material are a type of powered industrial truck.
well the ISO standard may designate a vehicle with a fixed towing hitch suitable for towing but tell that to the truck owners that have had to replace thier tranny's or repair them because of towing or pushing loads.
Anyone with any REAL experience in this industry knows better, no matter what documentation you find to state otherwise. ;o)
a lifttruck was not built with the intention of doing any type of fulltime towing, thats why they build tow tractors.
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