Discussion:
Battery Fundamentals

I just picked up a crown 35rr picker with 1500 hours, ironclade work hog 24v batteries and hobart charger. Previous owner didnt use much nor did he know much about it, could barely drive it out of his shop. Anyway,

I didnt have 220 in my shop so i connected charger to generator and plugged her in for awhile. Seemed as though she charged from a red light (very low) to a 1/4 full after a couple hours. Used it a bit to check it out and in no time she dropped back to the empty state (red light) so i plugged her in a again. It never came back to the 1/4 full state after, can drive it but no lift.

I now understand that charging batteries are a bit of a science and and I figured it may be wise to get some good advice/direction before i start plugging and unplugging like a jackwagon. (for now, can I use the generator for charging? or should I wait to get 220 I installed in the shop?)

Charger has the daily and weekend selector...

Sorry I really dont know much about these systems (yet) but respect them and really would like to salvage as much remaining battery life as possible, if possible.

Recommendations?

Thanks folks, appreciate your time and wisdom.
  • Posted 2 Sep 2011 16:05
  • By les_v
  • joined 2 Sep'11 - 6 messages
  • Maine, United States
Showing items 1 - 15 of 15 results.
les v,

1.) Any brand charger will work with the Exide load hog as long as it's amp out put is compatible with the battery. Do you have the battery model number. It is in this type of format XX-YY(Y)-ZZ XX = number of cells; YY(Y) = is either a two or 3 digit number that equal the number of amps/positive plate in each cell; ZZ = total number of plates (positive & negative) in each cell. With this model number we can advise the original amp/hr capacity of the battery. This number might be a.) stamped in teh side of teh battery case; b) stated on an applied lable; & should be stamped on an inner cell connector near the positive (red) battery cable. One needs to remove the plastic covers near where the positive cable is affixed to the battery. REMOVE ALL JEWELRY, WATCHES, ETC WHEN DOING THIS & WEAR SAFETY GLASSES & DON'T WEAR ANY GOOD CLOTHES WITH COTTON. That sulfate makes nice little holes in cotton noticeable after the next washing - it is OK to wear a 70's polyester leisure suit though.

3. When you say the water (electrolyte) level is OK. Is the level about 1/2" below the bottom of the cell cap hole or more & at least above the top of the cell plates. This is where it should be to avoid electrolyte from "boiling" out during charging - not really boiling but expansion of the volume takes place as gas bubble are formed during the charging process.
  • Posted 4 Sep 2011 10:56
  • By johnr_j
  • joined 3 Jun'06 - 1,446 messages
  • Georgia, United States
"Have An Exceptional Day!"
thanks again, great advice,
  • Posted 3 Sep 2011 10:28
  • By les_v
  • joined 2 Sep'11 - 6 messages
  • Maine, United States
Might not be a bad idea to have someone check out the battery AND the charger to see what both of them are at,can have a decent battery but charger might be off and cook the h*ll out of the battery or undercharge it and be of no good if it isnt doing its job right
  • Posted 3 Sep 2011 10:22
  • By kevin_t
  • joined 2 Dec'10 - 1,301 messages
  • Pennsylvania, United States
The truck will be used every now and then, were not in the materials business but will use it to move a pallet of heavy material here and there so on average maybe an hour a day tops.
Thanks
  • Posted 3 Sep 2011 10:16
  • By les_v
  • joined 2 Sep'11 - 6 messages
  • Maine, United States
man all great advice thank you all so much.

There are a couple small deposits of battery acid on top, of the maybe three globs each the size of a quarter, the sides are very clean...

Yes the charger has an egg timer like dial any recommendations for a brainless (brand) charger for the work hog batteries? providing they will come to life of course.

I have 220v coming into shop end of next week. Water/liquid level is fine in all cells.

Would it make good sense to have a tech come check it out before plugging it in to the new 220 circuit on the old holbart or just give it a try for how many hours?

Thanks again really appreciate it.
  • Posted 3 Sep 2011 10:13
  • By les_v
  • joined 2 Sep'11 - 6 messages
  • Maine, United States
The best way to determine if the battery needs an equalizing
charge is to check the specific gravity readings for each cell. If
there is more than 0.020 specific gravity unit variation between
any two cells, the battery should be equalized. A good rule of
thumb is to equalize the battery once each week.(From Dekas Battery service pamplet/brochure)

This depends on the weekly usage of the truck if is only used once i a great while will be longer compared to a truck that gets used 8+ hours daily
  • Posted 3 Sep 2011 09:33
  • Modified 3 Sep 2011 09:34 by poster
  • By kevin_t
  • joined 2 Dec'10 - 1,301 messages
  • Pennsylvania, United States
One thing you can do to test the health of your battery is do a specific gravity test of EACH cell before charging and after charging(after it has cooled). Also do a voltage test off charger and ON charge(again EACH cell) to see if the charger is doing its job. Doing each cell seperately will pinpoint any cell that may be weak.
  • Posted 3 Sep 2011 09:00
  • Modified 3 Sep 2011 09:03 by poster
  • By kevin_t
  • joined 2 Dec'10 - 1,301 messages
  • Pennsylvania, United States
Think of the battery as the "motor" of your electric forklift... just as you would change the oil and filter on a gas/lpg engine if you take care of a battery PROPERLY on a electric it should last a long time. One thing on a battery that has been sitting around and discharged for a long period of time(if this is the case?) it is good if you overcharge the battery a few times to desulfate the plates in the cells. I have one customer on my route that NEVER waters their battery's and they have one truck that has a battery that isnt a year old yet and it is ALREADY junk
  • Posted 3 Sep 2011 08:56
  • By kevin_t
  • joined 2 Dec'10 - 1,301 messages
  • Pennsylvania, United States
les v,

Just an idea - the Hobart charger you are talking about is equipped with what is commonly called "an egg timer" charger. This means 1.) it is very, very old; 2.) but the user is guessing how long the battery needs to be charged - the 8-10 hr hour charge cycle is a close "guessitmate" of how long a battery that has ~20% charge remaining to be recharged. If you set the timer to 8 hours of charge time but the battery is only 30% discharged you will "cook" the battery , shorten the life, have electrolyte spill out the vent cap, etc. 3.) Today's chargers are referred to as auto "start/stop" or "Smart" chargers - they will start charging when you want them to & stop the charging cycle when the battery is fully charged - eliminates the guess work on your part.

Contact a or more than "a" local battery/charger distributor(s) & see if they have a "good" & tested charger that could work for you & sized to your charger. There not too expensive but not cheap. They might even take your "Hobart" in on trade.

Not trying to spend your money but it is good advise for the long term.

Finally does the battery have a lot of "white" powdery stuff around the top of the battery & white drip lines down the sides of the steel battery case. If so this is a sulfate that has been formed from loss of "electrolyte" (aka battery acid over time. This could be an issue you might want a battery guy look at. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ADD ACID ON YOUR OWN - YOU WILL NEVER GET IT RIGHT INS SPITE OF WHAT OTHERS MAY TELL YOU OTHERWISE.
  • Posted 3 Sep 2011 08:48
  • Modified 3 Sep 2011 08:55 by poster
  • By johnr_j
  • joined 3 Jun'06 - 1,446 messages
  • Georgia, United States
"Have An Exceptional Day!"
Just one quick note;
a battery does not like to be shocked, or bumped around. Hitting holes w/ the forklift can cause the oxidized lead to fall from the plates to the bottom of a cell. This will inturn short (or partially short) the cell, reducing the overall voltage.
This is how the fires start when using the older chargers, it also is not good for the truck ( the bumps or the lower voltage)

Its a skydive weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Posted 3 Sep 2011 04:37
  • By 7777
  • joined 8 Mar'11 - 649 messages
  • New York, United States
Thanks for the quick response!

So my marching orders are to
1- install 220v
2- verify water level (looks great btw)
3- verifu charger is capable of charging the batteries in the truck
4-plug er in for 8-10 hours while onsite ad pray to the battery gods for grace and forgiveness
  • Posted 3 Sep 2011 02:24
  • By les_v
  • joined 2 Sep'11 - 6 messages
  • Maine, United States
Great advice thank you for taking the time to respond, very helpful.
  • Posted 3 Sep 2011 02:22
  • By les_v
  • joined 2 Sep'11 - 6 messages
  • Maine, United States
Hey, I learned something
  • Posted 3 Sep 2011 01:57
  • By 7777
  • joined 8 Mar'11 - 649 messages
  • New York, United States
les v,
What 7777 said sounds right with one exception is on the equalize charge cycle on low usage equipment - I went to a different school & recommend that the equalize charge cycle should be done every 2 months. The equalize charge cycle is designed to bring all the battery cells up to equal voltage to help extend battery life. (cells with lower voltage than others will weaken the other cells).

But you will not be able to recharge that battery with a portable generator (not enough amp out put). If you continue to to so you with "kill" the battery & probably not due your generator any good.
Wait until you get the proper charger hook up to the correct power supply. The max. out put of the charger you have should equal the amp/hour capacity of the battery in the truck you have + or - 5%. Check it out.
  • Posted 2 Sep 2011 21:54
  • By johnr_j
  • joined 3 Jun'06 - 1,446 messages
  • Georgia, United States
"Have An Exceptional Day!"
Batteries that are used often have a life span of about 5 - 10 years depending on maintainace. Batteries should never be charged for short periods of time, a full 8-10 hrs. of charge and only when the battery requires the charge. Water (perferably deionized which reqires an expensive set up) should be added and should covering the lower plates of the cells after charging is complete ( make sure there is water in the cells before charging). If there is iron in the tap water, use bottled water.

An "equalize" on the charger may be present, that should be done every 6-9 months, again, depending on use.

It sounds like this machine probably wont be used a whole lot in your place, so equalizing probably wont be an issue. A low battery can cause damage to the truck during operation, so I would wait until the 220vac is available.

Just remember, charging a battery produces explosive hydrogen gas, a small spark makes a huge bomb blast. I never charge batteries over nite, I like someone to keep an eye out when charging. A customer had an older charger, the battery shorted internally and caused a fire at night. One of the most expensive part of the truck, is the battery, treat it nice.

Alot of information, hpoe it helps
  • Posted 2 Sep 2011 18:48
  • By 7777
  • joined 8 Mar'11 - 649 messages
  • New York, United States

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