now I understand -
Our daughter & family live in Mineral Wells & Possum Kingdom is about 15 miles from their home & the "blazes" came real close to were they live earlier in the spring - they had to evacuate for a day as another fire start between their home & I-20.
We lived in Waco & Katy area 'til '96
If the fires head in your direction stock up on "Sweet Baby Rays" bar b q sauce it's great.

maybe i should have phrased things a little differently. my point (or at least what i was thinking) was that when the economy is somewhat weak the new equipment prices are "perceived to be high" and in my condiderable experience when the economy is slow people do fix what they have and when the economy is good the "perceived price is low" and new equipment is the order of the day. as for sales i agree with you. i did my sentance in the sales department and was paroled due to lack of....well lets just say it didnt work out. i have great respect for people that can "close the deal" and even more for those who can do it with integrity. i am not one to poormouth sales. as for "golf" well...we do have guys that play golf every week and some are in the mid six figures. did i mention that the economy is "blazing" here?

toyzilla,
Have a hard time following your logic. My experience of more than 4 decades taught me is when prices are low to the end user as a results of slow economic conditions that translates there is less GP in the deal which equals smaller commission to pay the bills & you need to sell more to maintain your income level - that takes extra effort - difficult to do.
Conversely, when business is "rocking & rolling", prices increases and the opportunity is there to make greater commissions because you can sell at higher prices.
Simple economics.
Personally, I can count on one hand the number of times I played golf or similar activities during the normal work day - in good or slow times. No doubt there are exceptions, as there is in any position - just remember everyone makes their choice(s) of a career path w/o a 9mm pointed at their head.

I shouldn't state this next comment but I will "All other functions of any company aren't required unless the products or services (not repair stuff) is/are sold". You know like that "chicken or egg" thing. But it does take a "team" effort to be successful. Like in football if an offensive lineman "slips" a block someone is going to pay - the team pays.

i'm not sure if lift trucks are over/under priced but i do know that if they get expensive enough we service folks are gonna be busy as ****. when prices are high they fix what they got and overtime is abundant. when prices are low the sales guys are hittin home runs and livin on the golf course. seems to me there's a season for everyone.

Andy Pandy,
With MH equipment like forklifts the big difference is the environment in which they work most of the time- ag & construction equipment work in mud & dust, uneven terrain, which means they need greater protection & most ag/equipment are fitted with expensive cabins, forklifts not so much. Ag-construction equipment work on side hills which dictates a ROPS (roll over protect system) vs a DOG (driver overhead guard) ROPS are more robust = more expensive. Just a few obvious differences
The Japanese companies taht I work for (Mist & Komatsu) both told me the forklift sell prices in the US are much less than in Europe & Asian countries. One reason Linde lifts are not widely accepted in the US market after many years of trying - they are viewed as niche' machine.
Certainly, competition sets street pricing but it is the total aftermarket support (parts, service, rental, finance, training,etc) that keeps customers coming back. The three key members of a dealer that the customer sees most often is the sales, service, delivery /pick-up persons. If the first, don't perform their job professionally, timely & accurately, there is no need for the driver and the rest of the support staff. There are "slacker" in any position at any company. It is a team effort that gets the job done.- just like in your version or our version of "football" look LA Galaxy paid millions for David Beckman based on yesterday's performance but the Galaxy loaned him out to the Italians (in 09/10) but at least he is still enjoying his Calif. house or his wife is. Think his contract is up next July, 2012.

Millreef, I take it the you are on the sales/management payroll then by the sounds of it and as for repetetive repairs remark are you talking about your own handy work.

Prices are determined by competition the more competition the cheaper the price. Ie a 2,500kg truck would be much cheaper that a VNA truck or a Container Handling truck. Also as companies can afford for smaller trucks to be down they will look at a lower cost manufacture where with VNA or larger trucks they can't afford the downtime so they will look to a quality brand.

Reading this you would think that engineers don't make mistakes or cost their employer money through repetetive repairs. In my experience engineers are every bit at fault as sales people. Engineers should get it right first time!!

Your right there about sales, they either spec the truck wrong in the first place or try & sell the customer the options they get the most comision on. ive lost count of the amount of times ive had to go in after trucks are delivered to either retrofit options on to / or remove items from a truck.

Andypandy, You have hit the nail on the head. Sales give the trucks away and they get there comision for doing a crap job, then the service dep have to pick up the pieces. Forklift hire and sales is not what it used to be.