Currently reformers are the best bet for making Hydrogen Gas. That process that was brought to a new level by Nuvera uses natural gas to reform into Hydrogen. Hydrogen Gas canisters are also available. As for the tanks. they have been put through some very tough test by Quantum Technologies with tanks up to 10,000lbs. The tanks are tested for gun fire, crushing, chemicals, ample cycling, bonfire testing and Severe about testing. You should be able to visit their website at qtww.com. Their should be over 1,000 fuel cell units sold this year and there have been no issues since they began using them in DC's.

Something else I forgot to mention is impact testing by these manufacturers. I am sure we all have heard about that certain electric car in the western hemisphere that is having fire issues with their fuel cells, (Metal Hydride or Nickel-one of the two). T-bone accidents with forktips impaling other units? I've seen a few of those in my day, the only difference is it was never a 10 gallon tank, pressurized with a highly explosive liquid/gas at 5000psi. In the worst case scenario, you would not have to worry about sending the operators-or anyone within a 100 yard radius to the clinic for a drug test!! :)

Dougster, from what I have gathered over the last two years concerning Hydrogen cells, they still take pure liquid Hydrogen as a fuel correct? Heck most urban areas with surronding homes and schools cringe at the thought of a 1000 gallon main fill tank in the neighborhood. Also the support infrastructure is just not there yet at the local levels for customers to make viable decisions on the long term effectiveness of these systems. Do they work? Yes. Are there landmines and pitfalls associated with them? Yes. Is the ROI acceptable? I would have to say no at this point in time.

RayTech, you hit some strong points right on the money. The competition is on between the Fuel Cell companies (Plug-Power and Nuvera) and the Ind. Battery companies. Batteries are becoming easier to maintain and charge. Fuel cells are getting longer run times with a holding tank that now holds 5,000psi to increase the run time. I am still leaning on the side of Industrial Batteries and I feel that in the long run it is still cheaper. Most companies that use Fuel Cells at this time got Government backing and tax credits and are looking to go green. Fuel Cells have dropped in price by approximate 33% from the previous year and Hydrogen is getting cheaper to produce. Lead batteries continue to go up and there has to be a make or brake formula for each application. Small warehouse vs Large warhouses. I have seen batteries changed at approx. 3 minutes per change and Hydrogen about the same. That process should not be used to compare. Run times for Hydrogen are close to 2 to 3 shifts run time on 24v pallet rider batteries. Both Lead Acid Batteries and Fuel Cells are worth watching. The sleeper companies are really worth watching with fast light weight batteries that charge really fast similar to Capacity technologies.

Hey Doug,
The distribution centre i work at allots driver's 7 minutes to change their own battery. They usually take 2 mins. A reach truck pulls into the slot, he removes the battery gate, jumps on the battery ease and draws out the battery. It goes into an empty slot then he draws a fresh one and inserts it into the reack truck.
Have you looked at the Crown video showing their reach truck? They specify that a hydrogen gas charge lasts "a full 8 hr shift" and takes about 5 mins to fill. The Wal mart warehouse has these cells now. I go there on occasion and thw workers there tell me there is little difference in run time. This warehouse needs trained personell to maintain these batteries as they need maintenance that cannot be performed by regular battery techs. I think big companies are using hydrogen to show they are "going green" It's hard to say if this is the way to go. I just hate to hear this being touted as "faster to change" and lasts longer per shift" when in fact it's at par, and 3 times more expensive. The Crown video admits the run time is 8 hrs. I was expecting so much more. Very dissapointed in run and install times.

I am very interested in how the batteries are being changed out in 2 minutes. Normally it takes about 10 minutes from start to finish to change out. You have to have a power room with chargers, extra batteries (normally 2-1), cranes for lifting and moving batteries, watering processes, drainage cleaning, battery replacement at approx. 5 years of life, water filtration systems for clean water.

Hydrogen is the number 1 element in the universe and is will become even cheaper in the near future. There are several ways to get hydrogen and the cheapest way is by solar, steam separtate and then hydrogen. Storing the hydrogen is the biggest problem right now and there are many studies to solve those issues. Hydrogen is here and the steam engine is slowly picking up speed. Batteries will still have there place with smaller applications.

RayTech - please do a little more research and look for hydrogen system to be intergrated into the lifts as 1 piece of equipment that you fuel that should last for a couple of days per fill up. Tank capacities will increase and think of the possibility of only adding water to keep the forklift running. It is possible with H2.

Wal Mart is going full pin with Hydrogen cells in their DC's. What puzzles me is the BS about charging times. Right now, A battery in a reach or counter-balanced truck can be swapped in 2 minutes flat!. Try any Battery ease or using the battery bull and it's all done in minutes. Right now, they are spending 5 to 10 minutes "gassing up" a hydrogen battery.. WHOA! why are people claiming it takes so long to replace a lead acid battery when in fact it takes longer to charge a hydrogen cell. Then, these cells last only ONE freekin shift! Where is the time saving? I see these cells in use. Hydrogen cells are NO faster to fill and do not last any longer than lead acid batteries.. Go to the Crown website and watch their video. They state the charge lasts 8 hrs and takes "about 5 mins or so" to charge.
After all the fanfare, i expected fuel cells to last days on one charge.....what a let down. And please dont say Hydrogen is already there, just grab it and put it in the cell. THIS Hydrogen is fully Man made...it's formed by water electroysis and methane reforming. It takes energy to make this. It takes pipelines and transport trucks to deliver this on site to the huge "Hindenburg" Fuel storage tanks.
Maybe fuel cells will get more effecient. But right now thew "well to wheel" effeciency for hydrogen is only 30 -35%. Lead acid is 70%. They could improve lead batteries and make Hydrogen useless. Like it is now.

Wrong. Just been studying Hydrogen, Fuel Cell, Ammonia Cracking, Solar to Hydrogen to Energy, Methane gas, Natural Gas to Hydrogen and many other emerging technologies. If you get a chance look up Dr. Swains @ U-of Miami work study on Hydrogen and you will learn some educational stuff about Hydrogen and where we are going. Hydrogen and Fuel Cells have been used by Nasa since the 60's with no problems. Hydrogen is the #1 element and we won't run out of it in our lifetime. I hope you get it a little bit now. Research the rocket fuel used on the exterior of blimps and you will be surprised to read about the same blimp you mentioned. Fuel Cell Doug Out.

Wait a minute, I get it. You're selling them right?

Youv'e seen the reel of the Hindenburg crash, right? I say Hydrogen wont be the norm for another 10 to 15 years. ROI is too high, so is the site liability.

The Fuel Cells are ready for mass production. The Infrastructure is not. The cost per kg is still too high. Gas companies are making progress. Give them another 5 to 10 years. Fast charging and better batteries are also on the rise which will create the perfect storm with competition.

"We are very close to mass producing fuel cells for industrial trucks."

From 5 years ago.

It's been a while since I post and Fuel Cells are right where I expected them to be. We are getting very close to affording this technology in our warehousing industry. P & G recently announced that they plan to equip 3 DC's with Fuel Celled Power Industrial Equipment with an H2 infrastructure. Stay tuned for more good info from Plug Power and Nuvera.

Plug power (plug) which took over General Hydrogen and Cellex are presently using their Forlift Fuel Cells in a large Distribution Center in Ohio. They are having positive results. Deka Battery out of Penn. State is in partnership with Nuvera out of Mass. They are close to mass producing the Fuel Battery for Forklifts in North America. There are a handful of others working the bugs out on this future device that will eventually power the Lift Truck industry. Like any thing else, it will take time to set up the infrastructure for parts, service, training and of course getting hydrogen to the lift trucks. Currently their are several ways to get hydrogen. Truck it in just like propane, install a massive tank to receive liquid gas and use a cryovac system to create pressurized gas (BOC, Air Products), place a reformer in the facility by using the natural gas to make your own presurize gas and other options that our currently being developed. Go to fuelcellsworks dot com to get tons of info about Fuel Developements. Hope this helped. I have been researching Fuel Cell technology for quite some time and Hydrogen is our #1 element on this earth and we will never run out of it. As for lead, acid, fuels and other materials, you will notice that they keep going up. We are using up these resources faster than we may think and when they are gone, they are gone from this earth. Hydrogen will be the power for every machinery in the future since there may be no alternative. You will also have wind, tide, current, solar and other free sources of power mixed with hydrogen power. Cool stuff.

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Hydrogen Fuel Cells are here to stay. Implement and proceed with safety in mind

Get ready for some movement with Forklift Fuel-Cells. (the future which is here)

Looks like Raymond isn't too happy about the use of Hydrogen at this time. There is no exitement with their lastest news release. If Ultra-capacitors keeps improving with equal battery weight and regeneration systems, you may never see mass numbers of Hydrogen powered forklifts. Here is Raymonds report on their tests from this weeks forkliftaction news;

"Raymond says refuelling the fuel cell forklift consumes a few minutes compared to the 20 minutes needed to remove and replace a battery from the same forklift model. However, the battery in electric forklifts contributes to the counterweight. Raymond says extra weight must be added to the fuel cell unit and the weight distributed within the fuel cell system so the centre of the gravity is the same as that of the battery. "

Raymond is also testing:
"Hydrogen consumption and frequency of refuelling,
Operation of the hydrogen infrastructure and refuelling,
Reliability, maintenance and repairability of the fuel cell systems, and Voltage delivered and how it compares with specifications for all the electrical components and options on a forklift.
Steve Medwin, Raymond's advanced research manager, says the forklift manufacturer will disclose further results of the research when they become available."

Hydrogen FUEL CELL manufacturers for forklifts are increasing their output. Keep an eye on Nuvera-Deka, Plug Power and GNB. BOC, Air Products and Nuvera-Deka will provide the Hydrogen. Forget the Mom and Pop warehouses. This is mainly for big warehouse users with 50 or more lift trucks. Mass production will make them more affordable with a bigger ROI.

i think yes i agree with you.but in my country (indonesia) its a difficult to expand a liquid natural gas?

Any one have suggest?

I had called them 866 907 5994 they are the distribution arm for the Oorja fuel cell. They have been in the material handling business for over 25 years. They can answer all your questions.

Does anyone have any information on MHD Green? This is an alcohol Fuel Cell Company.