The Materials Handling market is about to change. With only around six or seven of the world's manufactures serving. With in the next 10 years most warehouse will be completely different Companies like KION of China DAMATIC or TOYOTA of Japan VANDERLANDE will dominate the warehouse business with hole turnkey products. Pallet trucks, reach trucks VNA truck will all be replaced with automated equipment.
Counter balance forklift sales will also decline and be replaced with complete handling systems that will be able to move products around a facility with out the need of an operator. Out side the facility there will also be big changes Both Diesel and electric forklifts will be replaced with 100% zero emission products that will have much longer ranges then electric forklifts and will be able to handle loads up to 72,000kg while being 100% zero emission. Companies Like Hyster who have backed Hydrogen to the tune of up to $260 million investment will see this disappear as hydrogen forklifts wont be able to compete with the new technologies that will offer lower cost's ,no need for high pressure systems ,be less explosive and more cost effective than hydrogen.
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Once again Dave no answer to my question where is your truck?? Its nearly the end of q4 2020
You have answered your own question, to move hydrogen efficiently ether being Blue or green hydrogen they convert it in to ammonia then ship it. Now some people will turn this ammonia back into hydrogen and some won't.
What you will find in the future is it is more cost effective just to use the ammonia not the hydrogen.
It will all come down to one point quite simply cost the lower the cost the better. Now for the materials handling industry ammonia will offer the lowest cost with the best productivity, this has been our point
Not an opinion, just what NEOM have on their website.
The world's first shipment of blue ammonia is on its way from Saudi Arabia to Japan, where it will be used in power stations to produce electricity without carbon emissions.
Saudi Aramco, which made the announcement Sunday, produced the fuel by converting hydrocarbons into hydrogen and then ammonia, and capturing the carbon dioxide byproduct. Japan will receive 40 tons of blue ammonia in the first shipment, Aramco said.
Ammonia can be burned in thermal power stations without releasing carbon emissions. That means it has "the potential to make a significant contribution to an affordable and reliable low-carbon energy future," according to state-controlled Aramco.
Japan aims to be a world-leader in the use of hydrogen, which is contained in ammonia. The country has committed to reducing its greenhouse gas emissions 26 percent by 2030 from 2013 levels, under the Paris climate pact.
Blue ammonia is a feedstock for blue hydrogen, a version of the fuel made from fossil fuels with a process that captures and stores carbon dioxide emissions. Hydrogen from renewable energy that creates no emissions is known as green hydrogen.
Saudi Arabia, the world's biggest oil exporter, is increasingly trying to counter its reputation for producing dirty energy. In recent months, Aramco has highlighted the low volume of greenhouse gases emitted from pumping Saudi crude, programs to boost gas production and plans to grow carbon-absorbing mangroves.
U.S. firm Air Products & Chemicals Inc. signed an accord in July with Saudi-based ACWA Power International and the kingdom's planned futuristic city of Neom to develop a $5 billion hydrogen-based ammonia plant powered by renewable energy.
Saudi chemicals maker Sabic - majority-owned by Aramco - and Mitsubishi Corp. are overseeing transport logistics for the blue ammonia project in partnership with JGC Corp., Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Engineering, Mitsubishi Shipbuilding Co. and UBE Industries.
"This world-first demonstration represents an exciting opportunity for Aramco to showcase the potential of hydrocarbons as a reliable and affordable source of low-carbon hydrogen and ammonia," said Aramco's chief technology officer, Ahmad Al-Khowaiter.
Tat2Pete
Your opinion is they will produce greem hydrogen, how do you expect them to ship or move this green hydrogen, it is as green ammonia they will ship the hydrogen. All these new green hydrogen plants are planning to move the hydrogen as green liqued ammonia.
Taken from the NEOM website:
NEOM will build a 100% renewable energy system and establish a world-class customer experience. It will develop a smart transmission and distribution network with the latest and most advanced technologies. We will strive to become the world leading in commercializing clean energy intensive industries, such as Green Hydrogen.
Am sure it says Green Hydrogen and not Green Ammonia......
Merry Christmas from across the Pond Lifter01.
I can not keep track of what year we are going on with the supposed release of this truck.
I also asked specific questions a month or two ago and got the "normal response" of all except what I have asked.
Funny thing is Dave you haven't answered the question I asked first. Where is your truck going to be unveiled?? Out of your own mouth on this forum you said it would be Q4 this year?? Still no sign of it pal. (But then you did say in an earlier thread it would be unveiled in Q2 last year) answer the question Dave where is it??
Ok your opinion is that green ammonia is still a pipe dream, and I should do my research. Well if it is still a pipe dream it's a pipe dream with quite a lot of money invested in it. Just two projects that are already in green ammonia are Pilbara in Western Australia over $35 billion investment and NEOM in Saudi Arabia over $5billion investment. Plus the blue ammonia already in the market.
Funny thing you have not answered the question about electric or hydrogen forklifts over 10,000kg. The reason for this is you can't
Green amonia is still a pipe dream Dave which if you knew anything about the industry you would know. It is being looked into but will certainly not be available in the next 3 years pal as research shows (do some pal it might help). The ship engine thing is a night pal it's currently being looked at by a Norwegian company but the sticking point at the moment is the CO footprint of producing amonia.
One thing I do notice missing though Dave where is your announcement and where is your truck?? Q4 finishes in a couple of weeks. But then in another post you said it would be announced last year and that didn't happen.
Like the rest I'm dropping out of this now Dave it's pointless trying to ha e a discussion with somebody who won't live up to what he says he will
You really don't have a clue do you, Green ammonia can be and will be produced in the next two to three years if not before, Blue ammonia where carbon capture is introduced is happening NOW Saudi Aramco have already shipped blue ammonia to Asia. So you say both Lithium ion and hydrogen are in the market now. Name one hydrogen truck that is in the market today over 10,000kg and name one company that has a Lithium ion or lead acid truck over 10,000kg that can work a full 12 hour shift with out have to recharge the batteries or need a batter change. When you get over 18,000kg this become much harder to do name one company today that can offer this.
When we started this discussion we were told ammonia can't run a IC engine now its well it might run a ship engine in the future. Well the real answer is an ammonia hybrid power pack running a 16,000kg 1,2200 load centre counter balance forklift would have a range of up to 15 hours with a 10 min refuelling time. This truck would also have a lower Total Cost Of Ownership when compared to Diesel, Electric Both lithium ion and lead acid and hydrogen based on a seven year work cycle working 1,500 hours per year.
It might be nice if the discussion was actually factual Dave/Exalt or whatever your name is today. Yes Amonia might just might be a viable zero emission fuel but it isn't yet and is nowhere near being one, it is being looked at to power ships at the moment but it will be several years before that even comes close to fruition. Where pas lithium ion and hydrogen fuel cells are already in use. Another fact you choose not to mention is the CO2 footprint that the production of amonia has, yes greener ways to produce amonia are being looked at but that is also way in the future Dave.
It's nearly the end of Q4 now where is the announcement yes told us all on here was going to happen?? Where is the truck that you promised would be shown?? Come on Dave show us all this isn't just pie in the sky
From Admin regarding johnr_j message (see 2 posts ago)....Thank you johnr_j and a Merry Christmas to you and yours and to all Forum active people from Admin and the Forkliftaction Team down under...we are wishing a festive season and good business into next year. Thanks to all for participating in the Forums and a big thank you especially to all who generously share their wisdom and experience...and by coincidence this 48 model will get to 366 days older the day before Christmas...we have the big day surrounded
The entertainment has been great. I hope the show will continue someday.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year back at you and to All FAC posters and Admin Folks from Down Under.
You can say Happy Birthday to this '44 model as the day after Christmas I get to be 366 days older than last year.
CIAO!
Swoop chris and johnr j Totally agree with you , Except I think this time we have gotten under his skin, I am going to be out of pocket for a while so in the mean time have a good Christmas and new year
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