Hello RobertWalker, how do you mean?
-Many wont go consulting independent service companies.
-There is a need of a proper department to handle such things.

Many wont go consulting independent service companies. Many queries do come regarding maintenance, Software etc. There is a need of a proper department to handle such things. There is a Big hole created in the automation sector really.

Yep, VEBIT. Is now FEDECOM. It would be interesting to know if other countries have associations. Nothing in Germany?

In the netherlands there is also BMWT, the associations of importers.

Does someone know if it could be possible to find assocation(s) that are only are for independent companies? I believe in Niederlande they call it VREBIT or something like that?

Paul, you are 100% right, but unfortunately, I see low responce on this matter, insie this forum. Which is realy important.

I dont agree lifter01.

It seems your company buys a lot of trucks and can "show them the door" when they don't supply the training, hardware and software. But they have a commercial reason to do that. We forklift companies can't do that. They don't like us. We "steal" their costumers. And they create atheir own monopoly like that. Really, RMI is NOT available for us!

Of course there will be companies that will try to get the info for free. But we can't get it even if we want to pay for it. It is just a no go.

Serious companies in our business invest a lot in tools, people and knowledge. It is no problem to pay for information (within certain limits), it is parts of our business model.

In the automotive industry you can pay hourly, daily,.., annualy for access to their information website. When you have a Toyota in the workshop and need information you pay and have information. You can choose a short term for a brand that you have a single time in the shop, and permanent access for frequent trucks.

I would sign in tomorrow!

Bbforks don't know about over your side of the pond but over here lots do want things for nothing. We are a large end user when we deal with a supplier we insist the supply us with the same info/software laptops etc they supply their techs. It costs us but we get it every time. We use steds, Judit etc fully licensed same with BT/Toyota. The only company we struggled with was Hyster/Yale so we showed them the door (they're determined to get back in but no chance). There should be more help for the better independents like yourself but the bad ones spoil it every time

The OEM's and their importers need us only when we need new equipment, when it comes to the service and parts they try to get the customers direct. I remember one case that came to court I believe in the states. OEM's tell you to fit original filters and other parts because otherwise the warranty expires, what is original, also the OEM purchases from an filter manufacturer like "replacement suppliers do", so in many cases they use the same supplier and quality. So yes the packaging showing the forklift brand they call it original? One filter manufacturer went to court, and the court judgement was: When the OEM gives the parts for free, they can say when you not fitt original we can expire the warranty. The main reason of this outcome was that, otherwise the OEM could ask any price fo a part.

But anyway with reference to the RMI repair software and maintenance info, of course also the independent would pay for this when this prices in a normal way, so that also smaller companies have to change to buy this.

Lets get organised!

I would agree that some (but not all) independents want whatever info they can get for free but the bottom line is that over here in the US, intellectual property is highly protected & rarely, if ever, given out to anyone other than dealership techs. I have heard that large corps have gotten the programs & such to do their own diagnostics, but this is the exception rather than the rule.

The issue to me isn't that the manufacturer won't supply the info needed laptops and training etc they will but at a cost. We are an end user and have not ties to any manufacturer but when we buy new machines we insist we get the training needed and laptops etc for our techs, yes it costs a lot but we can and do repair the trucks ourselves. One of the big problems as I see it is that some (not all by a long way) independants seem to want the info for free

In the netherlands we have two branch organisations. The bmwt is the organisation where the importers are united. They want to protect their business and don't want the independents to wrench on "their" machines. Then there is what used to be "vebit". That is the organisation where the independents are united. Recently the vebit joined the fedecom, which is the the organisation where agricultural machine companies are united.

The Netherlands is (too?) small. Are there organizations in other countries? Maybe they can join each other?

How is the agricultural branch organized? I know about cema, where the producers are united in Europe. And there is climmar, where the sale and service companies are united. On the website of climmar I read they did a lot of lobbying for RMI.

I wholeheartedly agree. We do need some sort of association to protect our interests as independents & end users. There have been multiple discussions on this site discussing the benefits of such but, unfortunately, in the end there seems to be no interest in forming such an organisation.

I have done exhausting research in the areas of associations, co-ops & such, and the first step in the process is recognizing the need for cooperation among competitors for the benefit of all.

To all of you, how can we organize? Yes will be a lot of money/costs involved therefore we should make our own organisation and strengle hands. Contact someone form agriculture, they know the way how to proceed? How did they do it?
Any suggestion is welcome.

The reason (IMHO) that the agriculture sector is making headway in this arena is because they have large lobbyist organizations (at least here in the US). The govt here actually taught farmers how to form CO-OP's to leverage themselves. They have govt support.

The industrial sector has none of the above, so we will have to suffer the consequences. I believe that these forums do help a bunch, but unfortunately money talks. I don't care how much a end user reads about how bad, poorly built, expensive to repair, etc, a particular brand is, if he gets a "deal" on one (or a fleet), we're the ones holding the bag when it comes time to repair it.

latest news from CEMA: (This is about agicultural machines. Not forklifts).

cema-agri. org/newsletterarticle/access-repair-maintenance-information-rmi-final-text-ready-%E2%80%93-so-what-does-it-mean

As of January 2016, any NEW type of tractor or (..), will have to be compliant with the RMI provisions

July 2021: for all agricultural vehicles the information for developers of generic diagnostic tools must be available.

July 2021: For tractors the PC-VCI interface (..) shall be harmonised.