A major message here is that the 'Independents'( apologies to the respected Manufacturers') but in my opinion the great guy's & gal's who have an entreupeneurial flair & passion for the business & are in the thick of it so to speak!) they are ahead of the game. Hence so many reported successes(big big one's in this Forum alone.) The REAL businessmen such as Mr C & Mr C, two of the CEO's in two of the Independents mentioned, to name but a few, look at EBITDA & ROCE not unit output & market share. Need I say more?..