johnr, I am assuming Briggs is or was an independant dealership, and if so, its all how willing they are to screw the competition. Also all the sales guys I know from a few companies I know out here in California are almost or have already gone into different lines of work. Everybody's starving out here due to the economy. So for the few companies that can still budget for new equipment, they are getting them even cheaper. Yale/Chase had alot of electric accounts out here back in 2003 to 2006, but lost some pretty big ones to Raymond and Crown on Full Maint: Thats gotta hurt!!