The important market to Linde in Europe is Germany and the German Linde dealers won't touch the 1411.Linde might sell a small number in countries like the UK but compared with Kalmar and NACCO these are very small. Even Hyundai and Doosan will sell more.


Linde will have customers in some places that will take the 1411 if the price was right. But it's all about technology and the 1411 will only go and damage Linde in the long run.or has KION finally realised that premium fork lifts don't sell in the global market. Only in Germany do KION sell well

Big Al Lift is 100% correct.

Exalt, I know for a fact Linde branded 1411's have been sold into the UK, and I hear from colleagues that they are selling well in other European countries. I suppose it makes sense to keep the 1401 for customers who want the hydrostatic drive, and the 1411 for mixed fleet users and lower cost regions.

Hi we manufacture our own trucks the first of the range will be from 5,000kg - 12,000kg then we will add a smaller truck from 3,000kg and a larger truck up to 16,000kg.

Because we have just been setting up our facility in Jubail Industrail City in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia we have let our web site slip , this will all be up dated in the near future. As for the the 1411 , KION now share products with both Still and Linde the new Linde 6,000kg - 8,000kg electric trucks are the Still truck, and as Still have a torque converter truck in the smaller range it seemed logical that Still will use the 1411, as linde wont sell this truck in Europe because of the 1401.

It dose seem that KION is now looking to share trucks with Linde and Still when Linde redevelop the 6,000kg - 8,000kg diesel truck this might be based on the Still 6,000kg - 8,000kg range.

It just seemed logical that KION use the 1411 for Still as i had herd Still were doing a 10,000kg - 16,000kg range and wondered if any one else had herd the same

Why is there no information online such as a website...? Orders are one thing, deliveries are another!

Exalt, what brand of equipment do you sell? Not taking sides or anything. You seem like you have dug in your heels on this issue and I respect that.

Are KION planning to run the 1411 as a Still brand truck in Europe

Hi im sure you will all be pleased to know we have received our first orders for our new iMod Model. these are for 5,000kg , 7,000kg and 10,000kg and will be delivered to our customer in the Kingdom Of Saudi Arabia were the truck will be available first.

It will also allow for all the people who knock me to see first hand how good our truck is and it will be proven against some market leaders

First lets look at our trucks we will start with a 6 ton truck weight is 7719 kg length to face of forks is 3181 mm width is 1908 mm twin wheel turn radius is 2769

10 ton weight 13360 kg length face of forks 4200mm width 2450mm turn radius 3940mm

Now to say spec sheets dont matter what if the truck is heavy you loose efficiency to wide and long you loose drive ability but you are right about service this is why we are looking to set the standards for this

Until you have a proven truck, in all markets, it is nothing more than a spec sheet. I for one would never buy a truck based on the spec sheet. How, where the truck is used and after sale support is the ultimate factor that determines the success or failure.

Higherandhigher i have given many people the opportunity to see our spec sheet and many people have taken this offer up.

We are not talking about KION here we are talking about Linde a brand of KION. KION has a number of brands Still Baoli, Voltas, OM Still and for many companies is not just Linde.

If you see KION as only Linde then it is your own limitations , i do understand the capabilities of asian manufactures but many of the people on here saying about Heli sany or the other Chinese manufactures are the people promoting premium brand trucks.

We as a company keep in the markets we set out to compete in and will move to other markets when ready. We also don't tie our customers to 5 year or long term rental contracts we offer them a service that as far as we know no one in the market can offer , eight hours back in service guarantee or the month rent free. If we fail to deliver on this service our customers are open to off hire the trucks.

Now when you look at the market as a hole most hires go over 5 years and if the truck or company don't perform the customer has to wait till the end of the contract to move. We don't knock the market we try to promote a better level of service for the customer.


As for the Linde 1411 what this post is about i personally don't think Linde has done a great job on this truck. may be my expectations are higher than linde or may be Linde have seen something i have not. But to me if you give a better service than your competitors at a lower price than customers will come to you.


We don't have hundreds of managers on high salaries we keep our cost to what we can make a profit and offer value for money. our values are simple Putting the Customer first, Keep it simple and Make a difference together.


we also believe in Quality, innovation and meeting our customers needs


Now if this is wrong we will find out the hard way but i don't believe it is

Exalt, with respect, 90% of the content of your last 3 posts have been speculation. It's clear you don't understand the structure of KION, the changing market demands or the capabilities of Asian manufacturers.

When you have a product to benchmark against the brands you are listing, then all in this forum may be interested to see the results. It's not smart to knock the competition as hard as you do. When you are trying to build a new brand; trust, service and quality are what you should focus on.

Let's hope your next post is a spec sheet or a link to your updated website!

Hi Big Al Flt so what you are saying is customers don't care about drive line. If this is the case than why do Linde charge more for a hydrostatic truck and say this is a premium product. if it doesn't matter than why did Linde do a Hydrostatic big truck in the first place. Customers do care about what drive line they have.


So in away now Linde will be a lower cost than say a Hyster Kalmar Taylor or KONE SMV don't exist any more.Will this mean that Linde don't manufacture premium trucks any more they are just like the rest but at a lower cost.

If this is the case will they be the same price as a Sany or Heli like i said before the 1411 is a Chinese manufactured truck and you have suggested they will be a lower price than some competitors so will they now compete with economy trucks


Dose this mean we are seeing a change of the Linde policy on how they will market their trucks. They won't say a Linde truck is a premium truck any more they are a more basic truck in big trucks.

Will Linde also change their big truck web site as they say the 1401 is the most economical truck on the global market , but as you have pointed out the price is to high

As I said before most customers don't care about drive line technology, but if they can get a Linde heavy truck for significantly less than the hydrostatic 1401, and cheaper than Hyster, Kalmar, SMV etc then they are very happy, because they still get the same global support and service they do with the 1401 truck, but at a significant discount.

Price point perhaps?
That's what I gathered from all of this.

I do not know any figures, how much is a 16 ton hyster vs the current Linde equivalent?

Just for the people who think i knock KION i don't i just like i have said in another post use the research we have done over the last couple of years in my posts some times.


The one thing i can say with confer dance is that in big truck trucks over 10 ton Linde have failed to sell any in reasonable number since around 2011. So for people like Big Al FLt who believe they can sell a Linde 1411 easily good luck its going to be a hard sell.


These people are quick to come on here and say they can do this but they have not said how they think they might

Linde have always claimed to be a premium product and have always charged a premium for this product.

Now with the 1411 and the HT 2 ton - 3 ton truck looking to go into the North American market how can they claim they are premium and say a Heli another Chinese company is not. Toyota sell TC and hydrostatic trucks at the same price the use many of the same components unlike Linde with the HT. You would never see Rolls Royce competing with ford.


KION is totally different from Linde KION have many brands which Linde is one in different markets so they are different in what they are


Linde is losing direction in ware it is in warehousing it is behind the likes of Junghienrich in IC trucks it is behind Toyota and in Big trucks its not even in the market , Now until some one can come up with a reason why it is in the market for big truck that says they build just as many big trucks as the three companies i mentioned they are not really in this market.

Thank you for the clarification. I stand by my comment.
I see that is all you recognize from my comment.

I think partsguy5 offered the best suggestions.

Good luck over here.

First Big Al Flt , im glad you understand our business and our market Knowing this you will know as we do how many trucks we are going to produce over the next three years , you will also know who are customers are , and how many truck these will take.

You will again know that Linde has failed to sell the 10 - 16 ton in any numbers never passing 120 machines a year over the last three years.You again will know that the main dealers the important ones to Linde the German dealers won't touch the 1411 so you can bet they wont do any better than the 1401. as they are meant for North America a market that even KION admit they have a one percent market share

You will also know how to sell this truck to your customers a point you have not said. But im sure your customers are Knocking on your door saying sell us this truck. We will abandon our NACCO, Taylor, and Kalmar trucks and come to Linde who can only other a second or third rate truck looking at it


Stam i said this will be the undoing of Linde not KION there is a difference KION are KION and Linde is Linde in fact KION wanted to distance it self from Linde in North america thats why it changed the name to KION North america from Linde North america

We fully understand how important service is to our customers that is why we are concentrating on the markets we are , But are able to fly service tech to train before we enter other markets and yes we have a budget to cover all of this. we have not just decided to start this project we have done years of research in to this and know how to move our product to the market. We understand you build the service side first the bring in the product and yes it will take over 12 month before we look out side our main market but when we do people will know because we count service back as our top priority we understand how important service is this is why we have designed our truck to allow it to be back in service in under 8 hours from reviving a brake down call

exhalt,
Any lift brought to any market is only as good as the support behind it - some key elements to support is having trained service & repair technician - having just an independent service company take care of a truck won't be good without training & proper service manual/parts manual (either hard copy or rand service diagnostic; local parts availability - not just PM parts, but hard parts - customer won't like having to have parts dispatched from overseas, customs always add time to delivery & emergency air freight is very expensive; are the tires size readily available in the country where the truck will be delivered; who, what and where would stock parts - certainly an independent dealer would not be in a position to make a significant investment in the hopes that they might be needed some day; approved operator training materials availability; warranty administration & procedures & reimbursement policies, timely technical service reports issuance.

To validate the machines capability product demonstration at the customers site is key - how would this be handled.

As you know I worked with Lancer Boss via a private label agreement with Allis-Chalmers - we had many issues -our dealers lost many customers because of lack of satisfactory product support back up. Smoke & Mirrors might sell the first unit but poor back up will spread like wild fire - through various trade associations meetings forklift users are often closely connected like concrete products, hardwood lumber (or timber as it is called in England), port work, etc