My experience has been when you idiot proof along comes a smarter idiot. You cannot fool proof anything. Things brought to market in real world conditions will have any flaws arise. you cannot plan out every possible problem that can happen when the product is subjected to use, abuse and neglect that happens on a daily basis.

Here in the US it depends on what the fire inspector determines as the cause. Then it is up to the courts if there is a suit filed.

What BREWSKI has said is correct, any battery can set fire. What i was wondering if a new lithium iron or any battery now set fire who is responsible, The OEM,The Dealer or the Customer.


It might be that something with the charging process caused the fire, it might be something in the service, or it might be a failure of the battery. But there will be some one the customer would look to claim off

It does make a difference which type. Two completely different chemistries. I have had maintenance free batteries catch fire due to poor connections. Had this happen on a brand new battery. Any power source has it's dangers, it just depends on how often it occurs.

Whats causes fires in batteries is the membrane that separates anode and cathode. If this breaks or lets the anode mix with the cathode then this cause an explosion and this causes the fire. It's doesn't really matter what type of lithium iron battery it is

There are many different types of lithium-ion battery, of which lithium iron phosphate is only one. Lithium cobalt oxide is the type that is most commonly used in small electronics, such as mobile phones and laptops, and has a higher potential to thermal runaway. Even under normal operating conditions they generate heat when charging.

Don't confuse this type of lithium-ion battery with lithium iron phosphate. They offer a much longer lifecycle, a very constant discharge voltage and are thermally and chemically much more stable. This is the battery type that everyone is now investing in for electric vehicles and materials handling equipment.

First i don't hate Hyster yale just saying it how it is. According to people on here i hate every body. I just put the figures straight and The figures i put on here are 100% correct. they come from hyster yale them selfs.

hyster yale are now in a prominent position to be a takeover target from one of the big Chinese companies like hangcha.

They just have too many problems they don't make enough money to now be a stand alone company and Nuvera with a turnover of just over $1 million and a EBITDA loss of $35 million that will rise over the next number of years.

63% of Hyster Yale Turn over is North America but around 25% of production is in North America. All Big trucks are made in Holland
so this and Nuvera make them a sitting duck

If you want to know about Hyster Yale strategy, profit margins, (and yes pricing and profit does vary between regions) I suggest Brewski and Stam, that you ask them not rely on speculation and assumption by the self proclaimed guru and hater of everything Hyster Yale!

Hyster big truck turnover 12.6% or $352 million EBITDA $168.5 million now around 30% of this would be $50.55 so you could assume that the big truck sales and accountable sales of small due to big truck sales would have a EBITDA of around $50 million. so if you look at it this way you might come to the same conclusion


Companies make a lot more money on big trucks than they ever do on small trucks including spare parts and service


lets take north America market, if you are looking for a truck over 10,000kg you would look at a Taylor, Hyster, Kalmar, depending on size possibly a Toyota (Hoist) Hyundai and Doosan. Plus soon Sany.

Now lets look at a truck at 3,000kg there could be Hyster, Linde, Caterpillar, Clark, Toyota,Hyundai, Doosan and the list goes on and on

I do not think profit margins are anywhere near 30% on big trucks. Most big truck users do not buy large numbers of smaller trucks. At least not in our territory.

Big trucks represented around 12.6% of total global sales. with north America representing around 63% of sales. Now what you should be asking is how many of those big trucks sales resulted in sales of the smaller trucks

Also what part of the turnover and profit did these big truck sales account for. This would be over 30%

Exalt maybe you can clear something up for me as you seem to know everything.

What percentage of hyster business is "big truck"?

Lithium iron batteries and hydrogen are only energy carriers, there is a much better option than both of these and this option will change the market.

Hydrogen is very unstable and cost quite a lot to produce it, then you have all the problems associated with the transportation of hydrogen or refueling hydrogen. If customers want to produce their own hydrogen electriloyzers cost from $3 million so its quite a high investment, and a hydrogen fuel cell for a container handling truck would cost just to build over $60,000. So for the Hyster big truck program you would be looking at a truck well over $600,000 which port will want to pay that as well as all the other costs that go with hydrogen and vibration problems for the fuel cell.


If they have a full battery system the weight alone would mean that on the steer axle they would need double wheels on the steer axle and the range would be limited to around 4 hours with six to eight batteries



These are just two reasons hyster will be looking a massive losses over the next number of years.

Oh well that's ok then.

will dosent necessary meen all would set on fire, You can be sure looking at past fires with lithium iron batteries. that a fire in a forklift will happen with lithium iron batteries. All OEM's have to do is put a extinguisher system in their trucks and this would solve the problem