Discussion:
How long do your hands-on evaluations take, on average?

This is for United States, OSHA-compliant testing procedures.

In my experience, one of the biggest areas of discrepancy between forklift training programs is the hands-on evaluations:

* The forms are different
* The criteria for passing are different
* The operator tasks are different
* The number of tasks is different
* The amount of time taken is different
* Some trainers use cones away from the normal operation area, etc

I always have used the OSHA-phrases, "an evaluation of the operator's performance in the workplace" as well as "the testing must be site-specific and equipment-specific."
I like today's safety article, which adds "and operator-specific."

My question and concern is - I have seen multiple trainers who only spend from 5-10 minutes on each operator's evaluation, ON AVERAGE!
Sometimes they spend as little as 2 minutes!

I don't see how this could possibly satisfy any remote interpretation of OSHA's regulations. Further, as I understand, those trainers would be putting themselves and their customers in an increased liability position, since if there was ever an accident that investigated their certification methods, I really don't see how 2 minutes could remotely ensure that each operator's skills and competence were tested in the site, demonstrating safety and knowledge in each of the site, load, and equipment hazards they encounter on a typical site.

So seriously - how long do your average evaluations take? (preferably USA trainers, but overseas approaches may be illuminating)
Also - If anyone knows of any OSHA paperwork that details this area of training, that would be most helpful. I know IVES teaches "6-10 loads per evaluation".
  • Posted 14 Aug 2009 03:16
  • Discussion started by JohnW
  • California, United States
Showing items 1 - 13 of 13 results.
I only have the allotted time allowed by the customer to review the practical testing.
This does NOT allow much time to fully review each operators' ability to drive and use the controls, however, I do make the most of it.

The issue lies with the system whereby there are recommendations, but these recommendations are not enforced. So, it is up to the individual trainer to do what is right, but not always the case.

I, for one, unlike some others, do watch each particiapnt operate the lift trucks. In order to be deemed competent, the participant must operate each class of lift truck, and be evaluated on them. Depending upon the class of lift truck, the practical test will vary. The sit-down forklift, if the operator is experienced, and good, should take approximately 7-10 minutes. I can tell within the first 20 seconds how capable the operator is. Usually, they run through a series of pylons, with a load, forward and reverse, and then park the truck. They are scored by points, however the numerical value does not detemine their level of competency. An individual with a final score of 94 may not be as qualified as an operator who scores 89, based upon an 85 passing grade. Several factors, including the time element, knowledge of controls, nervousness and confidence all make up my determination as to whether the individual has indeed passed, and what level of competency was achieved.

A situation whereby I cannot fully view their abilities, due to space limitations or weather, may result in the top performers only receiving a site specific certification, meaning that they are only qualified to operate the truck in question, at that premise only.

Power pallet truck testing is less involved, narrow aisle reach testing is different, as in the stockpicker. Every class of lift truck has its own testing program, and I do my best to follow it rigorously.

As mentioned, time is an issue with all employers. Whether it is 730-4, 8-5, whatever it is, generally they do not like paying overtime, and that squeezes me. I do my best to evaluate each participant the best I could, in the allotted time.

When teaching at the college, I am afforded a fully day of tutoring, and testing, each student. We start from the ground up, and practice each leg of the course, over and over, until we finally have them up to par on completing the entire course properly. The full day does make a difference, but I can only get away with that at the college, and not in an industrial or commercial workplace.
  • Posted 13 Sep 2009 11:14
  • Modified 13 Sep 2009 11:19 by poster
  • Reply by dan_m
  • Ontario, Canada
reply removed
  • Posted 11 Sep 2009 00:00
  • Modified 14 Sep 2009 23:39 by poster
  • Reply by Panthertrainer
  • Ohio, United States
I have to agree with Safety Guy in that the on-truck evaluation, test, skills check, etc. is a useful tool when it renders a simple decision of Pass or Fail. Using the general education method of ratings, point systems or "percent correct" for on-truck operator skills evaluation makes us look silly at least and irresponsible at worst. Here is why:


Assuming that our on-truck evaluation is valid and NOT superficial, we are testing operator skills against objective criterion measures essential for success on-the-job (We do NOT test for unnecessary behavior, as that would make for the silly part).


So, if during an evaluation, the "operator put his hand outside the overhead guard" we are morally and ethically obligated to DENY his certification for that attempt. Then, until such time that he can practice the correct "keep-body-parts-inside" behavior, and then pass the item during a subsequent attempt of that test item, he/she will NOT PASS the evaluation. To do otherwise is the equivalent of saying that either our on-truck evaluation of "keep-body-parts-inside" behavior is:


1. superficial (which it is NOT), or

2. we are allowing operators to sally-forth on their job knowing full well that they do NOT have one of the ESSENTIAL safe behaviors in their repertory of operating skills.


That would be the irresponsible part...because the lack of skill could result in severe personal injury of body parts and/or death to the operator.


So, what should we do in the future to improve our contribution to safe forklift operating? Learning more about effective "Evaluation" or "Testing" practices might be a good place to go for those serious about improving their contributions to our industry. Some information about pass/fail testing can be had for free at:


WWW dot LIFTOR dot COM (Ask George);

WWW dot OFCCP dot GOV (Content Validity/Selection Testing); and

Also, you can purchase at WWW dot ASSE dot ORG - ANSI Z490.1-2009 "Criteria for Accepted Practices in Safety Health and Environmental Training."


Best wishes,

Joe
  • Posted 9 Sep 2009 13:47
  • Modified 9 Sep 2009 13:54 by poster
  • Reply by joe_m
  • New Jersey, United States
www.LIFTOR.com
Operator/Examiner Certification for In-House Supervisors
jmonaco@LIFTOR.com
post removed
  • Posted 9 Sep 2009 02:06
  • Modified 14 Sep 2009 23:40 by poster
  • Reply by Panthertrainer
  • Ohio, United States
Heres where we differ. If they miss an item they fail and I retrain them. Yes they must pass 100%. Sometimes the person must repeat the entire course. Sometimes they can't be retrained. Some people are not capable of driving a lift.
  • Posted 9 Sep 2009 01:53
  • Reply by SafetyGuy
  • California, United States
post removed
  • Posted 9 Sep 2009 01:28
  • Modified 14 Sep 2009 23:40 by poster
  • Reply by Panthertrainer
  • Ohio, United States
I agree with Pathtrainer,s pass fail concept. The evaluation is a simple pass/ fail of the tasks the operator will have to complete in the workplace.
In fact, my experence is most evaluations of experence drivers can be performed while they work ( e.g. loading a trailer).
Some trainers use a score card totaling up the final score as the result. The idea of a point system realy dosen't work out unless its custom written to the work enviroment it will be used in.
Simple pass/ fail is best.
  • Posted 9 Sep 2009 01:21
  • Reply by SafetyGuy
  • California, United States
post removed
  • Posted 8 Sep 2009 22:29
  • Modified 14 Sep 2009 23:40 by poster
  • Reply by Panthertrainer
  • Ohio, United States
National LIFTOR Industrial Sites conduct "Skills Checks" also known as on-truck tests. These have taken as little as 45 minutes, and have been known, on occasion, to take up to about 20 hours per operator. Our goal is ALWAYS to ensure mastery of the skills before we let the person out of the training. We recognize that some people take longer than others in developing the required skills. The average time for a skills check of an already-experienced operator is about 2 hours.

These skills checks (tests) are administered by specially trained and certified front-line supervisors. The tests are substantive in that the items closely simulate ALL forklift-related duties required of the operator on-the-job. The tests are content validated, are reliable, and are part of a training process that complies with the new ANSI Z490.1 Standard on Safety & Health Training.

Regarding your "time" question, related OSHA text is available on their website for Docket #S-008 "preamble" section of 29 CFR 1910.178 (l) "Notice of Final Rule Making". Three trainers from Tennessee Valley Authority, Southwestern Bell, and Monaco Group, Inc. concurred that the average time for training and evaluation was about eight (8) hours with their respective programs.

For free information about National LIFTOR's unique and effective approach to forklift operator evaluation, training, certification and OSHA compliance, go to wwwdotLIFTORdotcom.

Best wishes,

Joe
  • Posted 20 Aug 2009 19:33
  • Reply by joe_m
  • New Jersey, United States
www.LIFTOR.com
Operator/Examiner Certification for In-House Supervisors
jmonaco@LIFTOR.com
The one item I always made a point for everyone was that when they are stacking something in a rack, that the operators eyes keep moving, not JUST looking at the target, but also below and above the target racks and when backing out of the rack, that they are watching not only behind them, but above the target and at the target.
  • Posted 19 Aug 2009 06:35
  • Reply by edward_t
  • South Carolina, United States
"it's not rocket surgery"
Over the years I have noticed a real quick and decisive way to determine the operators driving skills. No matter what warehouse or customer or application, if the operator drives the equipment right on the verge of outta control, I would automatically know they could be trusted, and I would turn my back on them while making repairs. The ones you need to watch out for are the slow-pokes, very unsure of the controls and travel speeds. In every instance what at first would look like a cautious driver, was in fact the worst operator in the building!!As far as training green horns on equipment goes, I dont believe any of the written is applicable from an operator standpoint. As a tech I know its important for them to know what to do in an emergency or tip-over etc. But theres no substitute for experience and having the "feel" of the equipment. I trained and certified drivers in Texas for 6 years on both stand-ups and counterbalance units, and other than the pre-trip inspection most everything I graded them on was their confidence displayed when operating the truck. After some preliminary driving on the equipment, I would encourage them to not be overly cautious on my account, just drive the truck and be sure of their controls.
  • Posted 19 Aug 2009 04:46
  • Reply by chublil
  • California, United States
Fix it right!!!
My training has evolved from an evaluation of skills only, to an opportunity for individuals to learn. When we started our program in 1988 it was damage control to get current operators certified. Now we usually have a class of 30 prospects and 4 or 5 instructors. They are told that if this part of the class is not completed satisfactorly they don't pass, and that if they pay attention to the 5 videos, the written test will be no problem. We start with paperwork, videos, and between four to seven forklifts, each in their own designated practice zone. Some have cones only, some have pallets to stack and some have crates to stack.
All folks with no experience are told to be there an hour before the rest to get extra practice time. After rotating all the students we begin evaluations. Some students spend 4 hours of practice and still don't pass. I explain that the level of hand-to-eye coordination required for this job they don't currently posses and they are welcome to try next class.
After all evaluations are complete we go to the classroom. We have noticed that the extra training time is enough that when they get to the jobsite they have the necessary skills and
confidence needed to be safe and productive.
  • Posted 14 Aug 2009 11:18
  • Reply by TradeShowDave
  • California, United States
CFR1910.178(l)(2)(i) Trainees may operate a powered industrial truck only:
CFR1910.178(l)(2)(i)(B) Where such operation does not endanger the trainee or other employees.

So it seems to me that testing in the exact area of operation is not such a wise thing to expect, and the use of safety cones is preferred over operations in an area where the standard dangers of the workplace exist.
In fact, it reads to me that as long as they are "trainee" they may NOT operate in the workplace, and only after demonstration of familiarity with the machine and having had a walk though that identified the actual workplace (site specific) hazards should they be allowed to operate "in the workplace".

You quote "an evaluation of the operator's performance in the workplace" which is not the same as; "practical training (demonstrations performed by the trainer and practical exercises performed by the trainee".
It seems to me that the "hands on" section to be the "Practical exercises". and evaluation of the operator to be after the trainee is declared competent to be an operator.
I hardly ever think that I (as the trainer) can spend more than 30 minutes with a trainee per type of machine and attachment, for the "practical exercise" and the time the operator must spend to become "expert" is more something their supervisor will spend with them.
I would have to agree there is no way I could consider 2 to 5 minutes anywhere near the requirement "to ensure that the operator has the knowledge and skills needed to operate the powered industrial truck safely", which I do not see as rigorous as "competence", especially since the operator must demonstrate they know how to do [CFR1910.178(l)(3)(i)(J)] "Any vehicle inspection and maintenance that the operator will be required to perform. "
Can you check the oil, look for leaks, check to make sure the wheels are not falling off, and operate the hydraulic functiuons completely on your forklift in under 2 minutes?
your mileage may vary.
  • Posted 14 Aug 2009 09:10
  • Reply by edward_t
  • South Carolina, United States
"it's not rocket surgery"

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