a small business with high turnover tells me that A) the company doesn't pay much B) The working conditions are rough C) The company is disorganized and has no leadership D) They don't care about their people, so therefore, there is high turnover. High turnover is for a reason but I can tell you this much, there is a Bimmer in the reserved parking space closest to the front door, and it ain't the forklift operator's car. And every Thursday, the Bimmer can be found at the golf course. There is some money, just not to be spent on employees' training. If I came across a small business that is hurting (really?), I would put an attractive package together to make it worth his while to keep whatever staff he has safe. I do this training stuff for the betterment of the operators in my region to ensure that everyone goes home safe at the end of everyday. Do I have to work harder than most? You better believe it! DO I work for less? That you better believe as well. You do this training as a commitment to peoples lives and safety, and obviously, to earn a living. But to host some cheesy training program online while the hosts are at the golf club or nudy bar partying it up while the subscibers' staff are dillydallying with these useless programs, online tests, and no practical testing, is definitely lacking, and if money is that tight, then why waste it on something that is useless?

Training can be done in many ways as long as it is documented and the trainer is qualified to train proper & safe operations of a lift truck. The trainer can be from outside the company or by an employee of the small business or medium or large or mega large. You don't turn over a set of keys to a16 year old and tell them go learn to drive. There are many sources that provides information, for example Clark with every new forklfit shipped from the factory has a very nice publication that defines what the Owner obligtions are under OSHA standards & other things liek waht is a stability tri angle, rear wheel steer (Clark promo stuff except on the outside covers. It is available for purchase at a nominal price. There are generic lift truck safety training programs available. I am selling a set of 3 Toyota training programs for pre SAS counter balance IC & electric, low lift walkies & narrow aisle reach / order selector version w/the this Clark user guide. Training can be as simple as sitting down with an employee going through (reading and answer questions) the most unread publication ever printed - the lift trucks operators manual, have a quiz verbal or written - document the test type and results, have them operate the lift w/supervision and instruction by a person of authority - document the results put it in the file and do a periodic review and document the review - (once/year). Just in case, the local OSHA inspector stop buy or a Phildelphia lawyer needs to get involved. No documentation or saying it cost too much may mean the small business no longer exists with documentation the battle is a little bit easier. How much or littel one does is a matter of the risk they business wishes to take.

Doesn't cost an arm & a leg to get what the OSHA reg says must be done but it is a commitment to employee safety as Nike says in their ads - "Just Do I". Oh by the way I don't like paying taxes either but I do to avoid the IRS hammer & keep my home.

IMHO- the OSHSA codes are written just the the tax codes, vague & open to interpretation- for a specific reason. Us, being the users of the codes, always seem to interpret them incorrectly when the sherriff comes to town. No matter what we do, there's always something we've missed, done wrong, etc. And of course, there's always a financial penalty for our ignorance.

As far as the specifics of training, if cheap, easy, quick programs are available in video then that's what employers will use. As I saw earlier in this thread, the only way to get rid of them is make them not a legal option, but this would kill small business. Sorry John & dan, but small businesses with high turnover rates couldn't afford to have you out constantly training new hires on how to safely unload & stack cases of beer.

Now I have to go drink (oh I'm sorry, I mean enviromentally dispose of) some spilt liquid refreshment.

dan m,
Let me clarify the meaning of what I stated when an operator moves to another company they do not have to go thru a full training course starting with the ABCs of lift truck safety. But it is up to the employer to do some training to qualify the operator to be competent in their operations. For example, an operator was qualifed to work in a "standard" storage rack warehousing operation with 12' aisle at company A (after receiving training from Dan M so he can make his payments on his nuevo Lambo and buy some polish or wax and take a trip South of the border) but the operator moves to company B that has drive through racking. The operator does need to be trained on the unique procedures to operate the lift in the drive through and a review of companies B own and maybe unique safety procedures. The employer, generally the operator's immediate supervisor, can do this without incurring any additional expenses and should document this training in the the operators personnnel file. This give Dan M some down time so Dan M can wax his Lambo before the wax dries too hard.
PS: It looks like from down here your a pretty good word merchant too! Maybe the FAC staff can give us an award for the longest posts, what say you? (LOL). Take Care.

That was one long post put forth by MrJohn. The wax on my Lambo started to dry hard before I could buff it out.

Although a refresher course when changing facilities is required, ya think any company is going to shell out money to have experienced operators specifically trained for their property? You gotta be kidding! If that was the case, I'd have my Lambo professionally waxed.

The issue we are dealing with here is the fact that companies are responsible for the health and safety of their employees, including lift truck operators.

Generally, but not always the case, if lift truck operator safety training was not the law, I'd be waxing other people s' Lambos for a living. Companies have to train their staff and the cheapest way out is the route many take, unfotunately. They believe they have done their diligence, and hide behind whatever Record of Training they received, or paid for. Looky here Mr labour officer, we had our staff trained (by an HP Pavillion Model 7583). We followed the law.

The only way to get companies or individuals off the online training programs us to outlaw them, just like they do with drugs. The hosts of these online training programs give a **** (sorry) about peoples health and safety just like drug traffickers and drug dealers give a **** about your kids health and safety. They have a gazillion departments with a gazillion officers attempting to stop the flow of drugs into our countries. The only difference between drugs and lift truck training is that their is good money to be made in drugs. A very large hardware/carpet/tile/plumbing/appliances/garden center ORANGE depot across North America uses computers to train their staff. WHO IS going to tell them otherwise? I tried but they don't listen. They just keep taking my money. I am waiting for the new version of that HP computer that will paint my house and do plumbing repairs.

Anyhow, the wax on my Maybach is hardening and I have talked long enough, so I will sit on the sidelines for now. There is no room for my propane cylinder and pylons in the Lambo

on-line bad idea very dangerous way of thinking!

My full understanding of the OSHA standards in the US is that the employer of the lift truck operator is the one that is ultimately responsible for qualifiying (aka certifying) an operator for their specific operations. Live outside trainers provide an educational opportunity for drivers to improve their knowledge & some basic hands on operational skills. On line training only accomplishes the first portion up to a point, i.e. very little opportunity to have alive Q & A session or discussion with others that have a similar occupation.

Lastly, OSHA does clearly state that the operator must be trained in they oprations they are expected to peform - no on the job "trial & error" training allowed around other employees. This means if you are training to perform duites on the shipping & loading dock and you are transfered to the warehousing operations you must be requalfied by the employer to perform those operation , even though it may be the lift truck make, model & specifcations. Change employers the oprator needs to be requalified my his new employer. This sort of like the apprenticeship training that is found in Germany (i.e. a jouney man machinist at company X moves to company Y as a machinist - they are expected to go through apprenticeship training under the standards of the new company - generally this takes 5 years - job hoppers are not common place).
Do really think on-line training can do this, it may be a short course in the total amount of training required in for proper qualification. In a nutshell, most proffessional & live trainers run the operators thru classroom & hands on opertional training - does evaluations at key points and a final exam, makes his recommendations to pass or fail, present the results to supervision/management - along with some paper work (wall certificate and wallet card) stating certain drivers passed his evaluations. And from that point it is up to the employer to provide the job evaluation evalutation and issue the paperwork to the operators as the employer sees fit.
This is basically what guys like Dan M do & I am more than sure he can expand on & will on what I have stated here as I have only provided a Readers Digest "Short Story" based on my own experiences and recalling Dan M posting on this site & his proffessional passion for a career he enjoys plus he trades in his Lambo every year on a new model with the all the latest tech but he has to get requalified each year before he can drive in the US - the word is out on those guys from mostly North of the US - their normal & polite behavior changes when they find warm weather and "fire water" at the same time.
PS: There maybe a typo or two in this message but that is OK by me - I am retired, I am not seeking a grade from a teacher or proffesor or receiving a 5 star performance review from a supervisor / manager and I drive a Fix Or Repair Daily vehicle w/ 270K miles - my wife has the real good car that i am allowed to chauffeur her around in w/cap an all - she calls me Max. This is just free stuff from what I learned along the 41 year journey in the lift truck industry. If this stuff helps great, if it doesn't use the Control-Alt-Delete keys. (LOL)

Well John, those restaurants sound mighty tasty! And I would love to visit Savannah and see those sights....if only I could land a high paying job as a trainer...that would pay for it all..
I just hope those folks on the dog gone internet dont mess things up with that online training!

Me thinks, Ray Tech was just joking when he made that comment about the "highr paying jobs are safe" thing. An issue with on lien wording is there is no voice inflections or facial jestures to give teh rad the full meanin ofwhat is simply presented in black & white. Whoops kinda' like on-line training.
Yep, a lot of people, including moi, had a rolling office & ate a Macy D lunch by the windshield at 70 mph. I did mine in the mid 70's when the speed limits were 55 mph - but I had a CB radio that I used to keep at the 70 mph - thru the states of Ohio, PA & Indiana, Ky & WVA, stayed in motels - didn't matter which one - no freebie stuff (reward programs) in those days, did it for 5 years and average 40K miles/year. By the way I only got 1 speeding ticket during that time in Indiana near Greenfield. Enjoyed what i was doing great experiences and learned from those that had more experience than I.

With a set of forks up front lol

"Online training is a supplement only...that's a given. Obviously, hands on training is mandatory...so your high paying trainer jobs are safe".

Really?

Online training is a supplement to real training? That's like taking vitamins instead of eating. You think you're going to be hungry and your body will be nourished?

Believe me, if an operator safety trainer is doing training solely motivated by the money it pays... I think that might be a good definition of a fool. I traveled 35,000 miles last year in my car and averaged 16 classes a month training. Many mornings starting at 5:00am for travel time, many 2nd and 3rd shift classes, and too many nights in a Quality Inn. Doesn't that sound fantastic! A good trainer conducts training for a higher purpose.

And on a second note; Lambos are too flashy. I prefer Aston Martin.

RayTech, & DanM
Should your travels take you thru Atlanta & you are driving, let me know when and I'll treat you to an ICON southern restaurant called the Varsity, near Georgia Tech. They are famous for their hot dogs & onion rings. They are guaranteed to stay with you for at least a couple hundred miles and help get rid of any of that new car smell that maybe left - TUMS don't help a lot. (LOL).
You'll enjoy St. Simon - if you get a chance go to Savannah - old type "Suthern" charm city (lots of Anebellum style homes, Spanish Moss on the trees - very cleaning & lots of places to eat. We go to the east coast ocassionally I have a nephew that lives & works on Hilton Head Island so we hook up with his family & my sister from N. Carolina. HHI is a bit of a Never, Never Land - but you will see a lot of retired lift truck operator trainers driving their Lambos to their exclusive golf club - I think I saw one from Canada in my last visit - might have been Dan M - whatcha' think?

'Online training is a supplement only...that's a given. Obviously, hands on training is mandatory...so your high paying trainer jobs are safe'.

Can't be that far from me. Next time you come to town, I'll let you drive my Lambo! lol

Online training is a supplement only...that's a given. Obviously, hands on training is mandatory...so your high paying trainer jobs are safe.
And John, I'm hoping to get some southern hospitality when we pass through Georgia next year. Have to stop by the "Southern Soul BBQ" restaurant at Saint Simmons Island!...My buddy at work just visited there and had the most awesome meal! Very nice island....just picture perfect. Cant wait to try those ribs!

I consider my most important goal when I train operators is to motivate. If I don't get them to think differently... I failed. I need to get real with them on fatality and accident statistics. I need to challenge them to build their skill. I need to kill the "autopilot" in their head that takes over operation when doing a repititious task... like operating a lift truck. I need to remind them they are more likely to kill a co-worker with their operation than they are themselves. I look them in the face and ask what it would be like to go home, face their family, and say "Dad had an accident at work today". And then have to say the rest... they seriously injured or killed a co-worker?
Rules... laws... standards DO NOT MOTIVATE. Dan M. is exactly right, online training can't answer the myriad of equipment specific and application specific questions. Online training can't read the person's face and see if they're struggling to understand something and readdresses the issue in a different way. Online training can't walk around a room changing volume level to help the tired third shift operator who stayed late to keep awake and listening. We need to stop the nonsense that online training can address heavy equipment operator safety training. That's ludicrous.