Posted in another forum, no response, thought I give it a shot here. Have any of our friends across the pond seen the BYD Electric Forklift?
Anyone see a BYD with 'Battery for Life' in service yet? I am especially interested in the LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) marketing claims vs reality.
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BYD seem to have hit something right with this truck
Like many of you, when I first learned of BYD I also thought it was too good to be true but eight months later I have become a believer. Due to BYD's Iron Phosphate (Fe) battery technology they are able to deliver features no one else in the MHE industry can even come close to such as: No battery watering (ever!), No battery swapping, Increased run time (outperforms any lead acid battery), ability to opportunity / fast charge with no harmful effect on the battery life, Full charge in 90 minutes or less, No equalization charging (ever!), No heat from the battery, the safest battery in the MHE industry, and by far the best feature - 10 years / 20,000 hour FULL battery replacement warranty!!
The BYD forklift itself is also very impressive as it is engineered and built very solid along with having a handful of standard features that many other manufactures either don't offer or charge a ridiculous amount of money to add to their forklifts.
I completely believe the BYD forklift is about to quickly become an industry disruptor here in the US market.
So your stuck with one vendor for the battery. By the way thank you for the feedback on the fuel cells. I agree with Arminus, not a permanent replacement for the lead acid batteries. Almost sounds like another Solendra
Thank you for the clarification.
Then my next question would be what is their after sales support like?
I think a lot of people are going to compare them to other OEM's that are not produced here or have a very small distribution here. As we have seen with some OEM's the truck sales come first with very little thought put into service and parts support.
That is correct, you can only get them for their trucks, at least as far as I'm aware.
There are assemblers out there for the aftermarket as direct replacements for Lead Acid, but because the trucks were originally intended for Lead Acid, you may find some performance limitations with Lithium. It appears BYD has optimized their trucks for the Lithium battery perfomance.
My question would be are their batteries only available for use in their trucks? It appears that is the only way that you can get them.
If that is the case I can see where you will get push back as most companies want to use a brand that they are already familiar with and the OEM servicing dealer has a good track record.
Hello from Ft. Worth (by way of California). I have some indirect knowledge of fuel cells, costs, care and maintenance...I can share what I know. There seem to be big pros/cons. Maintenance can tend to be high. I believe the major FC players bury the costs in 'warranty'. I've had conversations with two major retailers (one in TX) that have demo'ed fuel cells...and did not follow through with implementation due to high capital and maintenance costs. There are also many end-users that have implemented them (Ace Hardware in Wilmer, TX for example). We have a mixed bag here, and I see the public companies embracing the FC's and the privately held companies holding off. There is a pending Tax Credit for FC purchases...I am certain the 30% credit goes a long way towards the feasibility (fuel cells can be 3x the cost of Lead Acid).
No one can argue that FC's are by far more convenient, never requiring a battery 'change' and you can recharge a FC in a couple minutes and return to work. Big advantages.
What I do hear, and have heard for the last 25 years is the desire for a better battery, which is why I originally created this topic, to explore the BYD Lithium battery. Now almost a year after I started this thread, I can tell you the interest is there and it is palpable, and lithium by all accounts is progressing in the MHE market.
At the end of the day, you have many steps involved in creating, transporting and converting H2 into a usable energy source...Like any of us who have tinkered around with machines, the more parts, the more opportunity for failures...I don't see H2 as the permanent solution, more of a transitional power source.
Hope this helped.
Companies like lifter 01 has described will stick to kit they know will do the job,interesting to hear they change the battery to get the full life out of the chassis ballast eat.
Must lower full life time cost and be much more efficient to do this.
With around 4500 trucks in the UK it's quite a large fleet so efficiency and down time is everything to them
Anybody have any feedback on the hydrogen fuel cells. How do they hold up , cost of operation?
Triumphrider it amazes me how many people think a battery looks after its self. As for the if it works don't fix it spot on we have a service regime that our techs have to stick too we do all our own repairs (we do have all the laptops etc) but the dealers only get involved when it's warranty work. Even running 24 hour shifts we get at least 10 years out of our kit before it gets replaced some like our Yale C/B trucks far longer as they just don't breakdown we are putting new batteries in them all now which will extend there lives by at least another 7 years. With 500 trucks on site it would cost the company a fortune if we didn't maintain them properly especially as we have another 9 sites around the uk with the same amount of kit in them. Look after your kit properly and it pays dividends
Lifter 01 you summed it up with one word MAINTENANCE.
Another thing you pointed out If it works Don't Fix IT!
I've got to agree with exalt here. Yes the BYD machine might be great but a few weeks of a demo doesn't show how it's going to be after 5 years running 24 hour shifts.
Exalt is spot on with his comments about big fleet users in the uk liking to stick with what they know. But another thing to take into account is the fact that in the uk the majority of big fleets in the uk tend to be on full term hire contracts so customers go with a brand/dealer big enough to service the contract either through breakdown ar pm work. We are one of the few big companies who buy all our own kit and we need to know it will do the job reliably after 5+ years so until these trucks are proven in the market place we will stick to what we know.
Back to the original argument I will repeat what I said about lead acid with a good battery maintenance regime, we have 4 Yale counterbalance trucks on site 18 years old and still going strong one of those is still running its original Oldham battery
There seems to be move advantages than disadvantages with Lithium iron phosphate battery's, the battery's chemistry is a lot more stable than standard lithium ion, why have the major manufacturers opted for lithium ion.
Why are people so quick to dismiss the technology without seeing it first hand?
I recently visited several BYD factories across southern China and believe when I say it, this is a game changer!
The battery technology is way ahead of anything available in either a conventional Lead-Acid or standard Lithium-Ion offering currently available and as the same cells are used in their buses and cars, the economies of scale are there for all to see.
The truck itself is also of the highest quality and is not your archetypal Chinese forklift truck. The machine uses major components outsourced from European manufacturers and the chassis is as good as I've seen anywhere in the 29 years I've worked in the industry.
The German market is readily accepting the product and many well-known brands are queueing for trials and demonstrations.
Dismiss BYD at your peril I say....
Looking at BYD they might be a new type of brand now but in six or seven years time when technology they use is proven they might be able to challenge some of the big boys. BYD are a large company with Warren Buffet as a shareholder and he knows a bit about investing in companies.
For now i think BYD will attract small companies and not large fleets like what lifter 01 has because these companies like what they know and tend to stick with this until they can be shown they would save money or save time on a product
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