Discussion:
Why hydrogen Fuel cell forklifts will not work

Hydrogen is said to be the clean fuel of the future, but can hydrogen really work as a fuel. The simple and easy answer to this question is NO. Hydrogen will never work as a cost effective fuel in any industry be it transportation Industry or Port and terminals hydrogen will be just to expensive when compared to other alternatives.


First there are now two ways hydrogen is being promoted as the saver fuel of the World. Fuel cell or IC engine ,which power source is used Hydrogen has still the same old problem You have to pressurise it to 350 bar and it has to fit in high pressure tanks both on the machine and when stored at a facility. The cost of this is extremely expensive Toyota spent over A$ 7 million for a refuelling station that can produce only 80kg of hydrogen per day.

Heli report their new hydrogen 4 - 5 ton forklift will have a range of 4 hours this is similar to an all electric truck , one reason for this might be a small hydrogen storage tank due to the high cost of the tanks themselves a 5kg Hydrogen tank would cost over $5,000. JCB State that hydrogen fuel cells need de ionised coolant that cost £20 per litre. and hydrogen its self would cost around $9.5 per kg. So for both to run and to service hydrogen fuel cells will be just to expensive for any company to use.

Hydrogen IC engines also have some major issues the first one is the low compression ratio due to the pre ignition of the hydrogen. The result of this is an engine that give much lower power compared to a conventional diesel engine. The JCB Hydrogen engine gives around 80KW when the same JCB Diesel engine gives 120KW. New Hydrogen IC engine equipment will also have the major issue of the high pressure tanks and storage.

Finally there is the problem of hydrogen supply. All the hydrogen projects around the world are to store and transport this hydrogen as ammonia meaning it has to be cracked back into hydrogen when it gets to site, a very expensive process. Here's what Aramco have to say on how they will store and transport their hydrogen

Hydrogen is a very light molecule. It can be liquified, but that requires keeping it at a temperature of -254°C, which makes it very difficult and expensive to transport - particularly over long distances. The solution lay in converting the hydrogen into a chemical compound which is already widely traded around the world: ammonia. 

Compared to hydrogen, liquified ammonia is far more convenient, practical and cost-effective to transport, in terms of both the required temperature and pressure conditions. 

Once the blue ammonia reaches its destination, it can be converted back into blue hydrogen,
  • Posted 22 Nov 2021 05:46
  • Discussion started by Letaq60n
  • W. Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Showing items 1 - 15 of 43 results.
Interesting (taken directly from FA, spelling errors and all)...."CARB is exploring how the LCFS program can better incentivise the deployment of hydrogen refuelling infrastructure (HRI) specifically for medium- and heavy-duty commercial vehicles."
  • Posted 24 Dec 2021 00:11
  • Reply by ChrisK
  • Kansas, United States
Been to WinStar in July this year on a Thursday & all 1 mile of the casinos were jammed - amazing facility. Had a room (13th floor) from our daughter and SIL comps with a great view of the Wind Farms and flat land what a "beautiful sight" Left enough money for them to buy two gallons of Sherwin Williams paint to keep the buildings painted well Ammonia eating forklifts wont sell too well there. Lived in Waco & Katy 'til 96 - at least they had live Oak trees.
  • Posted 14 Dec 2021 08:37
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States
"Have An Exceptional Day!"
North Tx area hardly anybody wears masks , covid shots Who Knows, whats funny is there is no outbreak of covid in this area. Have a safe trip. BTW the casinos in Oklahoma love to take your money too.
  • Posted 14 Dec 2021 05:46
  • Reply by Dexter1212
  • Texas, United States
@Dexter1212
Looks like you are following the foots steps of the lego, ammonia eating, modular truck inventor - LOL.
BTW will be traveling thru your neck of the woods this coming Thurs. Our Granddaughter is getting married in Granbury be will be staying either in Mineral Wells at our Daughters & son-in-laws home or Weatherford our Grandson's and his wives home. 950 miles on I-20 (port to port) this '44 model and bride of almost 38 years are driving - Covid shy's us away from flying. Stop in Vicksburg (about 1/2 way) for the night and let the casino take some money (about 1/2).
Head back to GA on 19th.
Life Is Good, Pura Vida
and a
Merry Christmas -
Hint: Watch the New Years come the Australian style 9 you'll luv it - about 7 am on TV New Years Eve our time (ET) - I drink a Virgin Screw Driver while the Aussies are drinking up anything with alcohol in it (lol) - they are a day and a bunch of hours ahead of us in the Eastern Time Zone.
CIAO!
  • Posted 14 Dec 2021 05:12
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States
"Have An Exceptional Day!"
.By the way i was known as triumph rider, for some reason i had to reenter my info and would not take my prior alias. Any how I named it after a cat I
had named Dexter, lived for 12 years and 12 days. Let me rephrase that, I was adopted by this cat 12 years and 12 days ago.
  • Posted 14 Dec 2021 02:00
  • Reply by Dexter1212
  • Texas, United States
@ChrisK Thanks for the link it makes interesting reading. I can understand why the US/Canada is seen as the target market due to size but hopefully if the Scottish plans for Hydrogen come to fruition then it may make the difference over this side of the pond.
Still, at least it gives me something else to add to the "what if" proposal to the powers that be at work to consider changing from LPG and Lead-Acid batteries if Fuel Cells are a viable option.
  • Posted 14 Dec 2021 00:34
  • Reply by Tat2dPete
  • Strathclyde, United Kingdom
Pete
ok chrisk i see now. when i did my search for that i came up with a few other sources tracking that info and the numbers were up there but sort of all over the map, not consistent. So i guess it depends on where you look eh? ;o) Overall they were still up there in their predictions so i guess we can say there is money to be made, a lot of it right? With inflation i'm sure that's the case. I still do not think hydrogen cell will be the future in any mainstream power source though, i think it will remain an option until something better comes along like a new power source or they make the fuel cells more efficient, less costly and more serviceable to the general user.
  • Posted 14 Dec 2021 00:30
  • Modified 14 Dec 2021 00:31 by poster
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
@Dexter1212
The last time I asked a similar question is when this bloke (his FAC screen name was "exhalt" at the time & he was based in the UAE at the time and has had two screen name since being based in the UK)) was "planning"' on beaching multiple units (maybe 15 units) on the beaches (ports) along the east coast of the US and Canada. His feeble response was they would have a "rental"** fleet of OTR ammonia fuel trucks to roam up & down the highways and byways of the east coast - what a laugh - for one, obviously this dude isn't familiar with the traffic jams especially along I-95 from Virginia and north. Onsite fueling station is what the end users prefer or some magical JIT delivery system = less down/idle time and less revenue lost time.

** rental in Europe means "something like" a "long term" rental (LTR) except is different -not familiar with the details but it sounds like a cross breed between a LTR & FMV lease
..................edited by Admin..........
  • Posted 13 Dec 2021 23:50
  • Modified 14 Dec 2021 09:09 by administrator
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States
"Have An Exceptional Day!"
swoop.....take the spaces out
verifiedmarketresearch. com / press-release / hydrogen-fuel-cell-forklift-market/
  • Posted 13 Dec 2021 23:31
  • Reply by ChrisK
  • Kansas, United States
for the second time , where and who in the Dallas/Ft Worth area are the fueling services for the ammonia powered super truck you are so proud of. Contact info please.
  • Posted 13 Dec 2021 22:06
  • Reply by Dexter1212
  • Texas, United States
Whill many people report equipment sales activity to an association there are some manufactures that do not - for example Taylor Machine Works ( key player in the Big Truck market did not up to 2007 - that is when I retired I assume the still don't. Guesstimates of market size becomes a SWAG. Kinda like all those Economist project the future - they general issue more than one forecast and hope one is right or even close. Most are seldom spot on.
  • Posted 12 Dec 2021 10:15
  • Reply by johnr_j
  • Georgia, United States
"Have An Exceptional Day!"
It Would be interesting to see where these figures come from and what is made up in the calculations. If its just equipment sales it would suggest sales of over 18,000 units per year
  • Posted 12 Dec 2021 05:33
  • Reply by Letaq60n
  • W. Yorkshire, United Kingdom
They are some interesting points on the market size. Is this just North America or global market
  • Posted 11 Dec 2021 19:12
  • Reply by Letaq60n
  • W. Yorkshire, United Kingdom
got a source chris? just curious where that came from is all ;o)
  • Posted 11 Dec 2021 11:33
  • Reply by swoop223
  • North Carolina, United States
You've been swooped!
swoop223@gmail.com
According to market research:

Hydrogen Fuel Cell Forklift Market was valued at USD 1.07 Billion in 2019 and is projected to reach USD 5.25 Billion by 2027, growing at a CAGR of 15.92% from 2020 to 2027.
  • Posted 11 Dec 2021 08:53
  • Reply by ChrisK
  • Kansas, United States

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