It's a shame that a mediator such as DOL had to get involved to get a company to do the "right" thing.
I hope these issues will set a precedence in this Industry and other Companies will see that this problem needs to be "corrected".
I believe you will see a difference in moral, the customer service will be better and profits for the company will increase.
Employees that are being treated fairly, have better attitudes, and will care about the work they do.
Why is it so hard for managers to figure this out? They talk all this "Team Player" crap, but are not creating an enviroment that will cultivate a "Team Player" attitude!!
.....again, just my 2 cents....... rumor has it, due to inflation, they might raise it to 3 cents lol :)

I agree roadcat, your statement "fair for everyone" is right. I would never expect to be paid % of my travel time and portal to portal billing practices seem like a fair trade off to a tech losing a 1/2 hour to a full hour of travel a day.

We have asked our management to take this "portal to portal" practice on several times, but as my immediate supervisor would say, "it fell on deaf ears". So I would guess thats the main reason the DOT got involved, was because were not going to "let the dead dog lie" as he would say again. When you start taking away from a mans lively hood we notice, and they wonder why we are so resentful. All of our techs are now getting a check for the wrong doing from the DOL paid for by our employer.

If you think your employer is benefiting from travel charges while your not getting paid you should contact your DOL. We did and now were getting back pay.

In reference to "portal to portal" if you split your time up with the customers and not hit everyone the same it works out and makes it fair for everyone.
There are very few Managers who respond to this forum, and they seem to have a grasp on reality. This forum has been "Brutal" for the others and rightly so, maybe if they pay attention to the posts and change their "Evil" ways, they will see a big difference in the moral of employees and see their business grow as well as profits. Customers are not "Stupid", they know when there are problems within a business, it shows up in the service they receive.

Getting back on topic, having a manager posting here is good and I hope more will post in time. Is anyone in our industry using "portal to portal" travel charges and if so is this a better or worse way to go in your own opinion?

bravo rat bravo

i tell guys all the time
"if you don't understand how it works in the first place how could you ever understand whats wrong with it when its broken?"

Looking back through the years, most rework and "misdiagnosis" is caused by:
#1 Lack of experience and technical knowledge. Many mechanics are good at taking things apart and reassembling, but do not know how to Troubleshoot. Having knowledge, like proshadetree mentioned, is very important. Studying diagrams and schematics as well as "principals of operation". If you know how stuff works, then you can fix it. Diagnostic skills come from "knowledge and years of experience.
#2 being in a hurry. We all know customers want their stuff "NOW" and put pressure on a fellow to "hurry" and get them going. This is a receipe for failure, you have to take the time to check it out and fix it right, some techs fall apart under pressue. This doesn't mean they are "Bad", they may not be cut out for the road, a shop enviroment may be best for them. We have all been their, The shipping guy has his boss breathing down his neck to get trailers loaded, so he is just passing it on to us, you have to learn to not let it get to you. Having good customer skills is a must in these situations.
Having a dispatcher rushing you does not help either, "Hurry up, I have another call for you," or the famous, "How much do you lack?, Joe over at ABC needs you there ASAP". My response is "Tell him to grab a number and get in line or send another tech, what is the sense of rushing through and misdiagnosing or screw up and leave something loose and have to come back?
A "GOOD" manager will use the 90 day deal to evaluate a new tech. Put him in the shop for a week and see how he does, then let him ride with seasoned Techs who know their stuff and check him out, it really does not take a long time to figure out if they are going to cut it.

Roadservice is a world all of it's own, nothing against shop guys, we need them too. You can take the best shop guy in town, give him a hand full of Work order forms and put him in a van and 3/4ths of the customers will be upset. He will beg to be back in the shop. You have to be a little bit "Nuts" to be in Road Service, That must be why I love it!! I would rather "Pich crap with the Chickens then work in a shop!
If managers would properly evaluate new hires, rework would be almost non-exsistant. But if you know nothing then how can you evaluate a new hire..... "There I go again, picking on managers, My Bad!!
More in line with the thread of the post, When you interviewed for the spot, if they explained the travel time deal with you, and you agreed to it, well hum........A wise man told me once, "Don't complain about what YOU allowed or agreed too"
You might need to pull a "Hank Snow", "Im moving on , I'll soon be gone!

Rework/mistakes/misdiagnoses do those all the time seeems like a 2 rec nope ita a 5.Oil sender leaking nope its the pan.Part of the job.Every tech out there will tell you the same most trucks do same thing its the hummers that make you pull your hair and I love to do.I make the same mistakes everyone will.Engine light on code bla bla its the flux capasitor.Nope converter broke down stopped up the tail pipe. But I do so love the guy that wants to know but tells you how wrong you are,He will get laid off first.Companys have to profit or they fail.My shop checks rework I make sure mine is at near 0.Lunch, first thing in morning last at night, day off as long as its gone.
But they do eat rework and insurance and van cost and and and and.As long as you and your company are ok with your travel keep on keeping on if not move on.

duo
sometimes in troubleshooting trees, partial or complete teardowns are necessary to facilitate testing on individual components
for example a toyota FBC with a code "C0"
at some point in the tree you have to take out the card, all the connections, the busses on the IGBTs' that put them in parallel, remove each from the heatsink, and test individually
but they may be good and all that was for naught
if one or more are bad you have to check every power connection in the truck for voltage drop including the drive motor still not find anything and have to monitor operator driving habits for abuse as those IGBT's are sensitive to overloading

so to say you know exactly what is wrong before testing was done is presumptuous and foolish and personally i hate when ppl give time frames b4 ive had a chance to diagnose a single wire
in MY experience
techs know the right way to test and replace components
the other guys "playing mechanic" are out there basically guessing for the most part
weed out the parts swappers and youll watch profits go through the roof GPS or not

EVEN WORSE is when some1 IN management goes out,runs into a customer with an issue, and says "o yeah thats not a problem justin can come fix this in five minutes"
then i get there and i have to inform the guy
"no im sorry but the diagnostics will take roughly 1-2 hours and if its what i think it is its gonna be another 2-3 hours to fix it"

how is that my fault if the customer goes nuts after that?

remember if youre mad about the people you have out representing your company YOU hired them!
its still managements fault for not finding, hiring, and training qualified techs
if they make a mistake WHOS responsibility was it to ensure that person knew what he/she is doing before they were even dispatched????
dont give every1 who fills an app out a set of keys to a van

this job is addictive ! i,m on holiday this week but always answer the phone if one of my customers ring or if one of my workmates is in my area,lost, trying to find someplace.i like my job but can,t switch off. my wife goes mad

You know this discussion could go off into many different directions, Flat rate, rework, state laws, honesty etc.
From what I have seen there are people that have mechanics tools that can change leaky hoses, change mufflers and install a new water pump. Then there are technicians which in my experience make up about 1 out of 25 people who call themselves mechanics. They are phenomonal at what they do. They can troubleshoot anything. Many customers want to know what the hourly rates are but what does it matter if a technician can troubleshoot and fix a truck in 20 minutes when the mechanic spends 3 hours on it and is still lost.
Sorry to say that I see a lot of misdiagnosis both with our company as well as our competitors. How many times have you seen a transmission problem misdiagnosed where the mechanic detects a little burn smeel to the fluid and condemns the transmission or worse yet when the truck has no power because of a misadjusted inching rod and they say the transmission is junk.
It is easy to tell that a lot of people on this forum are proud technicians and are adddicted to it. But put yoursel in management's shoes once in a while and we have to put up with the rework/mistakes/misdiagnoses with the other 24 mechanics and worse yet most of those 24 already know everything anyway. Those will say that yeah you adjusted the inching valve and get the truck to move, but it still needs a transmission.
How about the mechanics that want to take something apart to see whats wrong with it. The technician will never take anything apart until he knows what is wrong with it.

Reply to Duo on his "rework" topic;
I agree with you on most techs still expect to get paid on rework with no repercussions, however in our company it works like this; you do get paid for rework, but it gets typed in the system as rework which is then a percentage category in your performance review. So in the long run, the tech pays for his rework. Myself and some ( not all ) techs underneath me will do what it takes to not bill the company for rework time. IE.. use the lunch time, work late to cover the time etc. While we strive for "0" rework, shtuff does happen. I will generally get a call when there is rework. I'll call the tech for input, and offer support if it turns out to be a problem.

Duo, Thank you for joining our discussion. I am glad to read things from a managers side. I read what mean by pressuring your coworkers to do their job, but isn't it a managers job to "motivate" their work crew? If your so called one or two workers are taking advantage of the system why not just fire them instead of making the rest of your work crew pay for one or two techs with bad work ethics or lack of skills. Mass floggings do tend to bring down moral.

Remember the customer always comes first and the rest will all fall into place after that.

We may not get paid for travel, but don't worry....we resent the fact we don't get paid for travel.

GPS was ment to be a baby sitter first and sold as a direction finder to service techs.Do I have problems finding some customers But I dont go there often.Gps we had normaly sent us the way the horse and buggy took before there was good roads.I have also seen guys that say I took the oil pan plug out and oil is going everywhere what am I going to do.You know the ones that call you 3 to 4 times a day wanting to know how to fix a lift and then tells you why you are wrong.They normaly stay till
stuff freezes over.If you think your getting the shaft move on I dont need anyone to help me with job issues Ill take care of my self.As far as pay I can do that to.

rework, warranty (used trucks), and mistakes can be billed back to service and sales like any other customer
you take those and claim them as losses

not only that standing behind your work (as a company) when there is a problem reinforces you commitment to quality which in turn makes the company more profitable through customer retention

if a techs failure rate is so bad that its cutting into the bottom line, how long will you really have to worry about that guy being around for anyway?

as a person who has intimate knowledge of his area (METRO NYC) i could tell you how long it will take you to get to point B from point A within 5 minutes factoring in time of day (10 miles can take well over an hour around here in a commercial van)
GPS is for the suits who dont know how far A and B are away from each other what roads to take and what traffic to expect

This discussion reminds me of my 2 favorite "business" songs. The first is "You get what you give" by the New Radicals and the 2nd is "Money changes everything" by Cyndi Lauper.
I am from management and do agree that there are some not so nice companies and some no so honest employees. My own experience has shown me road techs that call in and they are 60 miles away from where they say they are, one that made 300 copies on OUR, not his, customers copy machine, tell us that the van is broken down so they don't have to work that day, use their van for personal errands, use their van to deliver beer kegs to a party (really good advertising) etc.etc.etc. I'm sure that there are some that wonder what WE are doing wrong, but I would guess that many others have the same stories and worse.
Some of the things that you may not like, such as GPS, were probably instituted due to less than honest employees. My suggestion would be to get on their back and make them change if you don't like what they force management to do.
Business-wise I have no problem with a union, but personally I do. I don't want to make the same amount of money as a contributor to my company as a taker does and I certainly wouldn't appreciate the meager $.37 cost of living raise that everyone else gets. I would rather work for a small honest and get my $1.50 per hour raise when the taker gets nothing or maybe $.25. By the way if you have never gotten a $1.50 per hour raise-or more-try working for a smaller company.
About 20 posts ago I asked why it was OK for a tech to collect full pay for rework/call back/mistake when the company isn't collecting a penny and there was not a hint of a response. That's what is known as give and take.